coinbilly Buys Invisible Friends, Meta Sells Off, and the PHP Bug That Hit Millions

0:00What is up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Full Port. It is a lovely Thursday. We’ve got so much to get into today.

0:08Meta earnings, we had SpaceX earnings, PHP incident and vulnerability taking down millions of users, exposing millions of keys, lots of money and frustration across the board there.

0:20And we have, at the end of the show, Coinbilly, purchasing Invisible Friends, one of the largest, most talked about, most hyped and iconic NFT projects that we saw come out of the NFT era.

0:33So excited to talk with him and have him on the show about his acquisition. We’ll talk about everything he’s doing.

0:40But, gee, good morning. How are you? We should jump right into it.

0:44The thing that has been on our minds since the last show was obviously SpaceX, but even more importantly has been Meta.

0:51Let’s jump right into it because Meta, you know, the market’s down today.

0:56And I think a lot of eyes are on Meta and how that impacted.

0:59So, yeah, so, you know, we were talking about it on Tuesday’s show.

1:04After SpaceX, Meta and Tesla were a couple of the big names that reported last night.

1:10But I think Meta was definitely more important than Tesla in the sense that Meta is one of the hyperscalers spending a ton of capital on the AI build-out.

1:21It initially popped on numbers and going into the call, it was trading at highs.

1:26And I don’t know if you want to bring up my chart, my screen here real quick.

1:31But you can see, like, after initial numbers, it popped. It was trading up.

1:35I think it, like, there was, like, five-ish.

1:37I even sat back and was like, oh, my God, I should have gone long heavy on this.

1:42Because I was going to go long on it, which I’m so lucky I didn’t.

1:46I was considering it. I was, like, I was going, I was thinking of going long on it.

1:50And then there was news that came out before the close about how Meta was going to issue new shares, Class C shares, so that they could raise money for the build-out and without diluting Zuck of his founder shares.

2:05And so it got hit a little bit. You can see, like, it was weak into numbers going into the close.

2:13And then, obviously, the news, the earnings came out.

2:17They also said that they were going to issue the shares, I think, or they were going to ratify the agreement in 2027, which means no shares would be issued in Q4.

2:28So it wasn’t, like, going to happen right away.

2:32So numbers were good to, inline to good, and they beat.

2:38And I think people were very bullish on it.

2:41Where the stock started selling off on the call was when they started discussing Meta Muse.

2:47And they were talking about how they weren’t monetizing yet and that it would be hard to monetize.

2:54And that, not that it would be hard to monetize, it would be expensive to monetize.

2:57They would have to invest into it.

2:59And they did it outside of, like, subscriptions that people are paying for right now.

3:05They weren’t, like, earning money off fees, which I think a couple people were hoping.

3:09And I think, ultimately, what happened here and why it sold off and why I think the market is selling off in general is the fact that people, and this was happening last quarter, too, of people being like, well, what’s the ROI, right?

3:23Because I think the biggest question with all of this AI buildout has been, all right, how are you going to get money back?

3:30How are you going to make money on this? Because you have these businesses that are free cash flow machines up until about a year ago that are now investing all their free cash flow into the CapEx buildout, the AI CapEx buildout, and now even issuing shares, right?

3:47So, you know, you’re talking about possible dilution in the not-too-distant future.

3:51So that’s why I think shares ended up reversing.

3:55It ended up, you know, this morning I woke up and, you know, the market was obviously down a lot.

4:03And I think that, combined with what we’re about to get into in a couple minutes with the hack, they’re calling it Black October or something, or, like, the biggest...

4:13Oh, my God. Dude, we’re just obsessed with using the Black terminology for October days.

4:17For some reason, humans do not like the month of October when it comes to risk assets.

4:24So this morning I put out some QQQ short as, like, a hedge against, like, my longs that I currently have just because the market just looked like it was weak.

4:34It seems like headlines are going to be worse before they get better, at least for maybe, like, the next couple hours.

4:42I don’t know if I’m necessarily planning on holding that overnight.

4:45It was just more of, like, a trade going into today.

4:48But I just think that there is heavy sentiment on the market.

4:53Also, I think there’s escalation in the Middle East.

4:56So that’s why oil, Brent oil was going up, although I think I saw it selling off a little bit.

5:03It’s been selling off since the Open.

5:05But, yeah, I think that, for me, like, the number one thing was this meta.

5:10If anything, I think it basically still...

5:14There are no questions answered, which is what I think investors wanted, of, like, where is the ROI?

5:20How are you going to be able to pay back all this spending?

5:22And what is that payback going to look like?

5:24And so I think the fact that Meta Muse has been a big consumer hit over the last, like, month or two, and they have it outright monetized it is what investors are concerned about.

5:40Personally, as somebody that’s, like, going through this and really messing around with this stuff on a personal basis, I know that you just have to keep messing around with it, and then you’re going to find, like, the business model.

5:52Because I think people are just, you know, we’re recreating entire business models here that the entire Tech Foundation was founded on.

5:59And so I’m personally...

6:02You’re also talking about a business that I think when they went public, they were losing money because they didn’t really have the ad business going on yet.

6:10And then once they turned it on, they really blew it out of the water.

6:14And... I think you’ve got to look back to, like, early days of Twitter and Facebook and all these social media platforms.

6:21And, you know, look, I think a lot of us have probably forgotten about the narrative and what that felt like early on, where a lot of people just said the valuations make no sense.

6:31Nobody wants to advertise... Like, nobody wanted to advertise on X originally, which is insane to me, when it had billions of eyeballs.

6:39Nobody thought shopping would have the impact it had.

6:42I think you’ve got to understand we’re going through a behavioral change for how everything is done, built, and maintained.

6:49And with that brings opportunity.

6:51You’re either going to lean into it and say, hey, we see this as the future, and people are going to change the way they shop and get information and connect, even play games.

7:01I had a long conversation last night. It was telling me about how gaming is going to change.

7:06Within that, now is the time to look at the companies that have the real moats.

7:11I know that was kind of a meme over the last, you know, week on X of, like, what are the real moats left?

7:16But distribution is certainly one of them.

7:19And so is, I think, social moat as well.

7:25So, I mean, those go very much into what Meta has.

7:28And I don’t think, at the end of the day, it’s impossible to figure out the advertising and shopping angle for Muse.

7:38I still see it, if anybody’s going to get it right, at scale with their current product in the early days, they have the most chance to do it.

7:47Well, I mean, to that point, Alexandr Wang, who’s basically the head of AI at Meta, I think has been doing a really good job of moving fast and breaking things internally, where it’s like, you can tell, you know, this guy, I think he’s, I’m pretty sure he’s under the age of 30, but he’s very, he’s like the next, if you want to say that Zuck, who’s now, what, probably 40, is, you know, the old guard.

8:11You know, he, he, at least, I think he has a good partner in Alex Wang of building out, like, the AI stuff here.

8:20So, yeah, I mean, I, again, I think that these, these are the questions that are unanswered.

8:26People are going to be worrying about this.

8:28So, we’re going to be waiting for more companies to report over the next week.

8:34Hopefully, we get some, some more clarity at some point.

8:37But, again, this goes back to what we’ve been saying the last couple weeks.

8:41Good news was being sold, and now there’s still uncertainty, and that’s being sold too, right?

8:48And so, this is generally, you know, why, you know, we, I think we took a cautious stance on the AI trade, starting after Micron, but then even more so, I think, a couple weeks, like last week or the week before when, when things really started to, to weaken, right?

9:07And so, again, I think, again, the trade is still there.

9:11I think, ultimately, you just have to be right and pick your spots, and you just don’t want to get over-lover.

9:15Yeah, again, patience.

9:19I don’t, I don’t disagree there.

9:21And, obviously, the entire market right now, as you’ve seen, scroll across the bottom of the screen.

9:28As we saw on the full port site this morning, we went to the markets page to have a quick look there.

9:34Things are red. And I think people have kind of joked about, hey, sit on cash, look for your opportunity.

9:41What is your take on, you know, finding that opportunity correctly and making sure that you’re positioned to execute on the names you want?

9:53We don’t have to even mention specific names.

9:54Yeah, you can see there’s a lot of red in the market this morning.

9:57You know what I mean? Um, yeah, shout out to you, you know, I know you’ve been working on, on our, on our site and our dashboards and stuff like that. And so this is pretty cool because it’s starting to, to be used in my daily process of like kind of going through stuff to get a quick overview of what things are going and, and whatnot. So, but yeah, I think when you’re talking about, you know, picking your spots, you obviously want to, you don’t need to be a hero, right?

10:23Like this is, I think the interesting thing here is that crypto in general has been stronger than the market has, stronger than AI for sure, which is a reversal of what we’ve seen for the last couple of years, where AI has massively outperformed crypto, where if you wanted those, you know, 10X, 20X gates that you used to get in crypto all the time, you were doing that in the AI trade. And now it seems like maybe, you know, that’s starting to reverse.

10:51Well, if you go, actually very good point here. If you scroll down to the AI dashboard, uh, it’s a link right here. If you find AI trade, most interesting thing that I found while doing this was that if you wanted to beat like the rest of the market on what was going on, uh, actually trading the AI tokens within crypto was a heavier return.

11:15Um, now I think this was out, outweighed by VVV. Um, but it was very clear that, Hey, if you want to make money, it’s, it’s crypto still right now, uh, which is kind of crazy.

11:28Yeah. So, you know, I, I, and listen, I think that that’s like, um, again, that, that strength is something to be, to be looked at. Right. And I think this kind of goes along with the gold trade of like how gold is doing and keeping an eye on that because you want to hold these hard assets in, in scenarios where, you know, the government may be printing cash, bailing people out and stuff like that.

11:52So, um, you know, I, I think these are all things to, to keep in light, to keep in mind and you don’t need to be a hero, right? Like you just, you know, pick your spots, find your levels. And if, uh, and also set your stops so that if it violates those stops, get out. And the key here is to live, to see another day. And, you know, you don’t go, you don’t go broke, uh, in one trade. Right. And so it’s like that, that’s kind of, you need to be systematic in your trading.

12:19Yeah. Now it’s not just Meta’s fault, uh, nor is it, you know, any, any specific other name in the AI sector. Uh, I think there’s a large amount of, um, concern where things stand for today’s red market. Additionally, uh, we had a lot of drama again, you know, it’s also from AI cause you know, this wasn’t discovered by, uh, some guy coding by, by himself, but PHP suffering a global, uh, vulnerability that affects millions and millions of different websites services. Um, and we saw this happen, uh, in effect, a lot of people that were using, uh, services like railway, uh, that allow you to run different models. Um, people’s environment, uh, variables were exposed. Databases were exposed. Uh, but this is, I think we’re back into this conversation of in the world of AI, you got to expect that there are going to be more of these, uh, vulnerabilities discovered. And the labs and the labs and the government and all of the security agencies are playing, uh, a weird game here of, I think, hitting pause button because they know it’s only going to accelerate. Um, but also we’ve got a lot of, we’ve got a lot of vulnerabilities that just aren’t, haven’t been discovered.

13:38So it’s not just PHP. I know Node.js also had a big thing. Cause like I’ve been, since I read about it yesterday morning, I’ve been having, uh, an agent, um, initially like was just checking stuff. And, and then I had it, I now have an agent that runs every hour scanning X and scanning all, all these, uh, places that put out all these packages for code to see if there are any vulnerabilities.

14:04And then patching it up amongst my system internally. So I have like my own personal defense that I have on my VPS is on my websites on my own personal setup. And so I feel like pretty good there because also a lot of my stuff is not like that public. So I don’t, I’m not like a high target, a high value target in the list of like where people want to, want to hack things.

14:28What I do think is very, what I’ve been thinking about. And it’s interesting and a little scary is that a lot of us do have a lot of information at what are high value targets. So let’s say like AWS or Google or Apple, like whatever.

14:48And I know, um, over the last year or so people have been like, oh, you have to assume that all privacy goes to zero over the next couple of years. And I feel like we might be starting the beginning of that in the sense that if Apple gets hacked or Google gets like, you know, when I, when I think about like the most important databases that I’m in, and this is just off the top of my head.

15:13And I’m sure there’s ones that have access to something that I gave access to years ago that still has access. And I have no idea. Um, it’s just kind of scary. Cause like, even I was thinking about it this morning where, you know, like how on apps, like you give them access to your, your phone, uh, your, your photos on your phone.

15:33And I was like, should I revoke access to like all that stuff? Cause like, if one of these like little apps gets hacked, they like might be able to access stuff like that. So it’s just like, I think there’s going to be a lot of like second order, third order effects.

15:44I was reading something this morning about a guy who was talking about, um, you know, in, in, uh, what are they, what are they called? These, uh, these, the incidents where like you get hacked, right. The digital information incidents. And like, it’s, they’re very expensive if you get hacked.

16:02And they, to the point where they can put companies out of business. And so now it’s like, if you have this system wide vulnerability, and then you have to obviously do your best, but like you’re, you’re kind of reliant on like the package that you were relying on. It’s just like this to me, like, I woke up this morning and I was like, Oh, this is kind of like what maybe Y2K was supposed to be.

16:30And like, why do you say that? I literally said that to somebody yesterday. I was like, cause well, I got asked about quantum computing. And my answer was like, we go through this, we’ve gone through this before. And it’s going to, it’s a story that’s, you know, only to become more noted is technology always advances.

16:48Vulnerabilities always become more, you know, as things advance tech vulnerabilities change shape and form and cadence. And the nice thing about technology is that it’s not just an offensive, but there’s also a defensive side of, we’re going to have innovations that like protect people.

17:05Now what those look like, I don’t know off the top of my head, but we should understand it’s a two-sided blade. Like this is not a, it doesn’t cut one way.

17:15Yeah. I mean, like, I think this morning too, right before we started coming on the air, there was, I was seeing reports that banks were getting hacked and like, you know, funds were being transferred without people’s permission and stuff like that.

17:29So I think this kind of goes also back to what we were talking about. I think it was last week or the two weeks ago with all the quantum fears that was weighing on crypto.

17:38And it’s like, guys, they’re, they’re not coming. They’re not coming for our money first, right? They’re, they’re going for like, where, where like the real money is like the banking system, the electrical system, the power system, all, all these things that could really wreak havoc on, on like the economy before they go after like, cracking Bitcoin. You know what I mean? And that’s, it seems like that’s kind of what’s happening, right?

18:05Do you think hackers are more likely to go after OnlyFans or Bitcoin first?

18:13I mean, I don’t know.

18:15Which one is more important to the economy is my question.

18:18Well, I guess like, okay, let’s think about it for a second. OnlyFans, I feel like if you’re going after OnlyFans, you’re probably trying to go after people that have OnlyFans accounts as a fan.

18:32To blackmail them to do what you want, right? So it’s like, that’s probably more valuable to blackmail somebody that is trying to hide their, what they’re, what they’re into, right?

18:47And get them to do what you want.

18:50So it’s just like, it is, it kind of goes back to the conversation we’re having the other day where it was just like, well, if, if they go after one of these systems, or let’s say like they go after Bitcoin, like the, like the Bitcoin then becomes worthless.

19:05So these people are not necessarily actors that want it for the money.

19:10I’m sure there will be people that try to make money off of it, but it’s more to do chaos.

19:16And so then if that’s the case, then you maybe have Iranian hackers, Russian hackers, North Korean hackers, like whoever our enemies are trying to, and us probably trying to do the same thing to them, right?

19:26And trying to, to wreak havoc. So I don’t know. I think that that’s where a lot of, you know, again, like I see the, the markets at lows right now.

19:36I don’t necessarily see this getting better anytime soon.

19:40Cause I think like we just keep on seeing more vulnerabilities. And like I said, like yesterday I started off being like, oh, let me run a one-time audit.

19:48And then I changed it to, okay, run the audit every three hours. And then I was like, all right, run the audit every hour.

19:53And like just check for no more vulnerabilities, make sure I’m trying to, I try to be.

19:57Have you run into the Anthropic being the, the morality police and the ethics police with you?

20:05I know a lot of users reporting that Anthropic such as Claude were being like, hey, you can’t do this.

20:10Like this is, you know, we think, we think you’re crossing the line of ethics right now, trying to look at for security, security vulnerabilities.

20:19No, I. That seems to be their Achilles heel as a company right now.

20:23I haven’t, thankfully, but I’ve also been running a Grok agent that spins up a Codex and an Opus session.

20:32And I, I kind of have been like using the three of them to, to audit everything, to check Grok’s work and, you know, find other things that maybe Grok doesn’t find.

20:43Interesting. Well, I think, I think this opens up another conversation around like when, when you’re looking for opportunity to invest in the market right now.

20:53Understanding that what we’re experiencing right now is not going to change.

20:57Like, this isn’t like a one-time thing.

20:59There will be more of this.

21:01So, you know, I, unless there’s something that is black sheep level where like all of your, everybody’s, everybody in all of your information becomes exposed.

21:13And, you know, systems are completely flipped on their head.

21:17I wouldn’t get worried if we have like a JavaScript or, you know, another, another like dependency, have a vulnerability.

21:27I will say, this is interesting for companies like Cloudflare, who we did say we were bullish on and had some long on.

21:36I think they were up on the morning.

21:38If I’m, if I’m correct, I’m not sure if you can pull up the, the current chart, but for these companies that are, are super important to fight back against this.

21:47And Cloudflare, Cloudflare was a very important company in the cog of this vulnerability.

21:54You got to look at them as, as investments and then look at them as like core, core pieces to the economy as we move forward.

22:01I have, I have the chart up. I mean, I think actually. You got to share that tab real quick.

22:05Oh, yeah.

22:08My bad. So I have the chart up.

22:11We were talking about on Tuesday. So it’s been up only since then.

22:14But, but yeah, no, I agree with you.

22:17I was reading a post yesterday where they were saying how in the hours before the PHP, because PHP made an announcement, I think 12 hours before saying, hey, we’re going to release this patch tomorrow at, you know, this time.

22:31And I think in the hours leading up to it, they were seeing thousands of people try to exploit it.

22:37Then in a couple hours afterwards, they were seeing tens of thousands.

22:41And then like, I think six hours after they were seeing millions of attempts.

22:47So yeah, I mean, like Cloudflare, it’s again, it’s, it’s showing how important it is in, in all of this.

22:55Right. And like, you know, even I think the railway, the railway hack, I think has been like pretty big in the sense that it’s, it’s put down like a bunch of websites and stuff, because I think railway was, it’s a kind of, it’s almost like a system wide hack.

23:09So I think I just saw something come across my screen, how there might be a system wide hack on all microphones on computers.

23:17It just like, it’s, this stuff is like getting pretty crazy.

23:21So. Yeah. And again, this will not stop. We’re going to see more of it, but I got to state this.

23:29Like there’s nothing here that like makes me be like, Oh, it’s over.

23:33We can fight back when it comes to identifying human from AI.

23:37I think that there’s technologies in the blockchain that, that we’ll see adopted.

23:40Um, and every lab right now, if this is anything to make people feel better, every, every lab right now is literally going, how can we profit off of this, um, and offer a service that, you know, everybody has to use and run.

23:56And so we have the smartest names, the most well-funded names, um, all trying to figure out what to do next, uh, and how to fight back.

24:07Yeah, I brought up, uh, the chart of Palo Alto networks, which I know he’s been, they’ve been at the forefront of the, of the AI space and like trying to integrate these things into their systems.

24:19And I know the CEO was on the all in, uh, recently, I think he was at the all in, uh, conference and, and he was on stage and he was talking about like their plans and stuff like that.

24:30So it’s, it’s interesting to see, obviously their security experts, you know, to your point exactly is at some point does Anthropic or OpenAI saying, Hey, we’re going to partner with you until we just want to take over your business.

24:45Or are they just going to be partners with them because they have a lot of expertise in the space over the last few decades.

24:51So it’ll be interesting to say, like, cause, cause I think my initial thought is like, Oh yeah, buy these security companies.

24:57But then my second thought is like, well, I remember what, you know, Anthropic did to Figma, you know, less than six months ago where they’re like, Hey, like, we’re going to partner with you.

25:07You’re going to be like, almost like our design partner.

25:09And then they basically cut Figma totally out.

25:12So, um, the question is like, you know, do we see more and more of that?

25:18Yeah, we have, we will, we will, but like, there’s also a degree of, it’s such a dynamic environment.

25:26I still think there’s opportunity to, to build and figure out new, you know, angles to play here.

25:33Um, you know, if, if you go back to like Higgsfield and the whole drama that has ensued them over the last 24 hours, they are getting called out for literally just taking other models and selling the models as their own.

25:47Um, and I, yeah, is that what that happened?

25:50They basically had, they’re just using Seedance and, and the WAN model, uh, and being like, Hey, we, we have this new great model that we have.

25:59The, the really important part on this is I think that that is a valid, like, like if you have the best front end and the best consumer experience and you’ve made it, some people just like using it and you have the branding.

26:12Cool. Uh, over time, you might be able to develop your own model or work with people to do your own model, but that’s a valid, a valid way forward in my opinion.

26:23Yeah. I mean, I think we’re, we’re definitely going to see more of that and we’re probably going to see a movement to more localized models.

26:30And cause I, I, I’m starting to run into this a lot too, where I’m like, Oh, I was working on something.

26:35I’m like, Ooh, do I want to give them access to this data?

26:38And I’m like, man, I would, I would much rather run this on like a local model where they don’t have access to it.

26:43Not for everything. Cause I think most stuff I’m just like, just give me the ease or, or whatever.

26:48But like, there’s more and more stuff that I’m like, Oh, I don’t want like somebody else to have access to this or whatever.

26:54So it makes complete sense. Um, I do see that we have our guest in the waiting room here.

27:02I would love to jump in this conversation for those who don’t know, uh, invisible friends is one of the most hyped, one of the most iconic and recognizable NFT projects that we saw come out of the NFT era, uh, launched with 5,000.

27:18Uh, NFTs. It’s done collabs, uh, with some very big names. It’s done, uh, look, it has a lot of accolades, but for the last five years, uh, Mr. Coinbilly, who was there at the launch, uh, has helped work with it.

27:33And now he’s announced, uh, maybe not yesterday, the day before, uh, his acquisition, his takeover of the project, very akin to what we saw with Luca Netz and Pudgy Penguins.

27:44Um, I can’t wait to chat with him. I have so many questions. Let’s bring him on to chat about what’s going on with invisible friends.

27:51Uh, let’s see.

27:54Yo. I don’t have my camera, uh, right now, uh, but thank you guys for having me.

28:00Of course, man. I’ll get a stand in here so that we can have, uh, something to keep your face.

28:08Yeah, no. So while, while Hunter does that, um, first off, thanks for coming on.

28:12Uh, you know, we’ve, we’ve been friends now for a couple of years and I know I’ve been chatting with you throughout this process and you were kind of, I know how frustrating it’s been, um, for you and, and I’m very happy for you that you were able to get this done.

28:27And, and yeah, so I guess for those who don’t know, could you just kind of maybe go a little bit into your background and your history with the project and, you know, how, how you came to, to end up, uh, taking, taking over the IP.

28:41A hundred percent. Thank you again for having me. Um, yeah, I mean, listen, I’ve been, I’ve been trying to acquire this brand for years now. Uh, I started working on it in 2021. Um, my entry to this space was, was like anyone else’s. I joined, you know, because I saw people talking about it and I wanted to see what the, what the hype was all about. Um, and I quickly saw like my place in this space as someone to help, um, launch projects.

29:08And that’s sort of when I got involved with a few artists and Markus was one of those artists that I got involved in through this collective that I helped found back in the day, random character collective.

29:20So, um, yeah, we helped them launch this collection and, you know, he was purely on the art side. I was more on the partnership, community, marketing, management side.

29:29And we managed to just launch an amazing collection. We, um, you know, did some amazing things. We had that charity auction that went for 1.3 million right into the mint, uh, mint opened up at like 10 plus ETH. We minted at 0.25 ETH. So that was just, it was, it was crazy. It was chaos. It was man, but it was, it was amazing. Like, uh, I can’t even.

29:53It was, it was, it was amazing. Begin to explain how that felt in the time. But yeah, after that, we just had plans for collaborations with brands like Kith and, you know, we did some cool things with Shopify when they were big in the Web3 space.

30:05And, you know, it was just as NFTs died down, so did like everyone’s feelings towards everything.

30:14And I always thought this brand just was something special. The same reason people fell in love with it in the beginning was the same reason why I thought it was special.

30:22And I think it could transcend, you know, beyond Web3 and that’s my plans with it.

30:28And yeah, I actually delivered on this like physical collectible towards the end of 2023.

30:36And when I started giving them to some friends and family and some partners that I’ve worked with in this space, it sort of became clear that this is what I want.

30:43And like I want to continue building this brand purely on like the physical side was what I was what I initially thought is like this brand really lends itself to to an awesome collectible brand outside of Web3 and outside of crypto.

30:58And that’s sort of when conversation started and took a little longer than I wanted.

31:04But here we are today and I have it 100 percent.

31:08What was that moment? Yeah. Like how do you go from working on because you worked on this at the start?

31:14What was what was the moment or the reason that you were like, hey, I have to take this over?

31:21Yeah, I mean, listen, I think the exact moment where I was like, all right, I got to buy this.

31:27I’ll tell you a little story was I was actually in Kith’s offices and I was giving this physical to Ronnie as a gift as like, you know, for working together and just as like a farewell almost to the brand because like nothing else was planned.

31:40And then I knew I was sort of tapping out and we were just sitting down.

31:43He was unboxing it and it was just like, you know, his office has a bunch of these collectibles and it just like fit right in.

31:50It was like such an amazing moment where it was like he placed it on.

31:53He made a room for it on his on a shelf of collectibles.

31:56And I was like, all right, like this just makes sense.

31:58Like I can’t let this brand die.

32:00And like I know Markus, you know, he’s an artist.

32:03And for the project, we never really promised more than art.

32:06It’s just people expected more because of how dope it was and because of how big he got.

32:11I was like, let me, you know, let me entertain this.

32:14And it sort of, you know, I thought it was going to happen like during those initial conversations because of how, you know, excited Markus was to honestly hand it over to someone who was ready to build.

32:24But then things just stalled, you know, things go.

32:26And here we are today.

32:29Yeah.

32:31Did you bring this up while you were with Ronnie about like, hey, I need to take this over?

32:36Or was that like an internal thought that you had?

32:39I’m curious there. No, I brought that up right away.

32:41I’m like, what do you think? Like, should I just buy this? I remember saying that. And he was like, why not? Like, like, just do it.

32:48You know, they had, you know, Kith also doesn’t just collaborate with anyone.

32:53So, like, he didn’t want to see the brand die.

32:56And he also didn’t want to see it getting taken over by somebody who had, like, the wrong ideas with it.

33:01Like, I know other people were gunning for the brand and the IP, but a lot of them were probably just going to just milk it for what it’s got.

33:09You know, maybe launch a token and maybe just, you know, let it fizzle out, launch some merch with, you know, some screen printed Invisible Friends on it and, like, let it just die that way.

33:21But, you know, I could not see that happen.

33:24So, I needed to make sure I was the one who got it.

33:27So, when you see, you know, obviously you’ve had a lot of time to think about it.

33:32When you see your vision for Invisible Friends from here, what do you see?

33:37Like, where do you want to take it?

33:40Yeah, I mean, in my head, I split it in the digital and the physical.

33:45Like, I think the digital still has a lot of room for, like, experimenting and having fun.

33:52And, like, you know, I don’t think my focus, a lot of people’s focus on the digital side and the Web3 side has been, like, trying to monetize as much as possible.

34:03And that’s where the token comes in. But my idea is more just experimenting and having fun.

34:09I look at someone like Jack Butcher.

34:11Like, Jack Butcher just has so much fun on chain and, like, just does so much cool shit.

34:15And, like, doesn’t really ask for much. And, like, he just, like, is an artist that is creative and has the technical side down, too.

34:23And, like, being able to experiment fun on chain like that is just really inspiring to me.

34:27And I think that’s fun. So that’s on the digital side. But on the physical side, this is going to be the next big collectible brand, honestly, in my opinion.

34:35Like, that’s how I see it.

34:37And collectibles take some time to build, especially high-quality ones.

34:41So those aren’t going to be live for at least a few months.

34:43But once those are live, I have plans to, you know, have monthly drops and place them in cool places, IRL, and, you know, have some cool ways to drop things.

34:55But in that time, grow the brand, grow the characters.

34:59I think Markus got a little burnt out towards the end of when the collection was launched.

35:03So we never really saw the characters being built out the way that I think they should have.

35:07So I have some animators working on just building out the characters, giving them personalities, and then I’ll be able to create them in real life and then sort of place them in cool places.

35:17So that’s the idea, sort of build out the characters, build out the brand world.

35:21The digital will be sort of fun experimenting, and the physical is just super high-quality, limited quantities.

35:27Yeah. Are you following kind of like the playbook?

35:31I wouldn’t even say following, right?

35:33Like, are you taking inspiration from, like, others that have gone before you here?

35:37Obviously, in my intro, kind of referenced what Luca did with Pudgy Penguins, taking that over.

35:43Um, and then we’ve seen, uh, numerous different, I think, collectibles brands go kind of this, like, route of getting, uh, taken over and figuring out what works for them.

35:56What is your, I guess, what is your, like, full plan there in the short term for most people that are interested?

36:03Yeah, I mean, Pudgy, you cannot, like, uh, they, they kill it.

36:07Like, they kill it in their, in their world.

36:08They focus more on, like, mass distribution, getting the brand out that way.

36:12That’s not really my focus. Um, they kill it in their own way.

36:16Like, we were also talking back in that conversation with Ronnie how, like, they, in store, they, and online, they do, like, a lot of volume with, like, Bearbricks.

36:26And, and pretty much only Bearbricks they were doing at the time.

36:29And at the time, Bearbricks kind of lost their, their luster.

36:32Like, people stopped caring about them so much.

36:34And, but there is still a need for that next big collectible brand in that world of, like, sort of higher end, more like, not hype beast, but in that world of, like, uh, just higher end, just shelf displayed, uh, art pieces that people are just excited to, you know, excited to display.

36:52And, uh, just, like, even if they don’t know that it’s an NFT brand, they’re just, like, this is a cool piece that I want on my shelf.

36:58And, like, especially if it’s limited in the beginning and, you know, only the right people have it and you place them in the right people’s hands.

37:05And, yeah, that’s sort of the goal is to try to stay limited, try to stay exclusive, but also really high quality and just create dope products that anyone is going to be like, wow, this is, this is cool.

37:17I want this.

37:20Yeah, no, I, I, I think from somebody who, you know, I, gee, I think you could probably speak to this a little bit from doing 90CC, like, that, like, limited drop, that exclusivity, that higher end, that, that kind of, like, cultural taste, um, is something that I think now, over the last few years, might not have, like, hit quite, quite the same for, uh, the crypto market.

37:43We’re now seeing people kind of, like, hey, I want something that has a, a very core, like, cultural niche thing instead of, like, the thing that’s gone wide market.

37:53Well, I think this, this is kind of going to what we were talking about on Tuesday, right, of, like, the need and the desire for IRL stuff.

38:00And I know, listen, Billy, we, we’ve been chatting for years, um, and I think it’s just really interesting, your focus on IRL, and, like, I know your, um, your desire to be a very good steward of the brand and not necessarily to, like, sell out and be like, hey, we’re going to make, you know, 100,000 of these next year, right?

38:24Is just to be exclusive, you can tell that you care a lot about the brand, uh, and that this is, like, a passion project.

38:32This isn’t something where you’re, like, all right, well, like, you know, let’s take over the brand, uh, monetize it, you know, license everything out, make as much money as possible, and run the IP into the ground.

38:43So, I, I think for that reason, I’m, like, very excited to see what you’re going to do with it.

38:48No, I appreciate that. And, yeah, like, I’ve, throughout the years, we’ve gotten approached to do crazy things, like, uh, like you said, like, people wanted to license, we had people that wanted to, you know.

38:59What are the crazy things?

39:01Um, like, people wanted to create, like, license it and create toys and distribute it in Walmart, but, like, that would have just, um, you know, like, we’ve gotten, like, very, not very far, but, like, proposals in our hands that people wanted to, uh, really just blow up the brand.

39:17And then that way, and at the time, it wasn’t my decision to make, so I wasn’t the one to make it, but I was the one to present it, and I wouldn’t do that anyway right now, but it was just interesting to see how much interest this brand, these brands had.

39:31Like, we had also collaborations lined up with some, with some big names that I don’t want to get into right now because I’m hoping they do come to fruition, um, and I don’t want to ruin that.

39:40But, um, yeah, like, we just had so many things lined up and things that fell through, partly because the space was just in a weird spot, so brand sort of got cold feet, but also just because, like...

39:54The brand itself internally was in a weird spot because of like the ownership and how much time people had and how burnt out people got.

40:02So, yeah, it’s just coming into it with like fresh, just energy and just motivation to just make this into a cool brand.

40:10So I have a question for you that I’m sure a lot of people have been thinking, asking about.

40:16So feel free to answer this or not. How involved, you know, obviously you have a relationship with Ronnie.

40:23Ronnie, how involved is he in this? Is he like one of the owners, part of the buyout team?

40:28Like what, what, if anything, can you share about what’s going on with Kith?

40:33Yeah, no, like right now he’s not part of it in that way.

40:37Initially, there were conversations two plus years ago about like if that would make sense.

40:42And at the time it might have. Right now it’s, it’s been years since we, since we, since I like spoke to him about this because I, it’s hard to just approach him and be like, I’m not sure what’s going on with this because of how much time there was in between these conversations with Markus and with the acquisition.

41:00You know, but now that we’re back, like I speak to him all the time, like we’re, you know, we’re friends.

41:05So the plan is to, to tap them in again, if they’re down and hopefully they are, and we’ll see where it goes from there.

41:14But I only 100% right now, this is all, this is all me.

41:18I’m sure this is, it must feel like unlucky off your back to finally take over the, the project.

41:26Can you, what can you talk about as far as like the, the length of it, the negotiations, you know, was it, was it tedious or was it something that just was like took time to finally get, you know, everybody to come around?

41:41I’m curious on that.

41:44I think it was just time.

41:46Like, I think, I think it was just a lot of, like we had contracts drafted up like pretty quickly.

41:54Like I would say towards, yeah, like October, November of 2024, we had contracts drafted up.

42:03And then like over time, it just like, you know, whether like, you know, Markus and them got called fee, maybe wanted to do something with it and then realizing it in and then came back.

42:14And then, you know, it’s like, it’s tough because he built this brand.

42:17It’s his, it’s his brand technically, you know, like he, he birthed the art, like the art came from some art that he created years before the collection was even minted.

42:27And so, you know, it’s hard to, to give up something like that, but, you know, he realized, you know, as he lurked on social media and as he saw like that, the holders are still around and still want something done with it, that it makes sense to give it up to somebody like me who did already, you know, built in the communities already familiar with.

42:45And, you know, I think if, if somebody else bought this brand and like came and said, like, I bought invisible friends, it would not have as big of an impact as if, if, you know, as this announcements that I made over the past couple of days and huge splash.

43:01Yeah, it’s, it’s been crazy. And it’s been like more than I expected, but you can even see Markus posted yesterday.

43:08He’s like excited for Coinbilly, excited for the community.

43:10Like, I think he sees the reaction that, that everyone is giving this and is, is excited himself to see the brand that he sort of created from his art, you know, become something bigger.

43:24Now, I also got to bring up, cause I don’t want to, you know, harp on like the other projects, but, you know, when I think invisible friends, I do think related.

43:34I go to Pudgy Penguins, I go to Doodles, a lot of what you’ve said also kind of brings me back to like, to, oh my God, the Creatures Project with Danny, Danny Cole, who is a close friend, I love him.

43:53And, but I think his idea was like, I’m going to go and find ways to just do activations in these small things and make it culturally relevant and make it something that’s notable.

44:04When I think of all these, the one thing that I’m curious about has been the creative output, the animation, doing all this stuff that people are consuming.

44:15Are you leaning into AI at all?

44:17Or, you know, since Markus won’t be involved, like what is, what is your outlook there?

44:22I’m curious how you’re positioning the future of like output on, on the digital side.

44:29Yeah, no, I mean, I have, I think AI doesn’t lend itself to this type of art, like it needs some personality.

44:36Yeah. I found a handful of animators that I have already working on, you know, art, you will see some, some, some stuff from them over the next few weeks.

44:46I’ll be posting it mainly on Instagram, I’ll post it to Twitter too.

44:49But the, the audience for that stuff, I think is mainly Instagram, just as like this, uh, satisfying animated content.

44:57But AI, I personally use AI all day, like the ability to keep this team very nimble and like only hire people who are, have skills that I don’t think AI can do as tasteful right now.

45:09Like an animator or like a 3D designer, sort of like that creative.

45:14Um, but on the AI side, like I’m working with AI to, to, you know, revamp the website and create these digital experiences.

45:21I’m actually working closely with the manifold team now.

45:24They created this awesome, um, agent that is able to create these, uh, digital experiences that they’re able to do on their platform.

45:33Um, you know, the, the studio, the manifold studio, I don’t know if anyone has ever tapped into manifold, but they created this agent that is able to go above and beyond with that stuff.

45:42And I’m starting, um, with something next week, actually with the manifold team, um, that I’m launching with them.

45:49So that’s, that’s pretty exciting on the digital side, but AI on like the art side, I’m not really going to tap into so much until maybe it gets, um, a little better, but I don’t see, I don’t see me tapping into the art side of, of AI anytime soon.

46:03But more on like the technical building side of what I’m trying to do.

46:08Makes total sense.

46:10So it sounds like you’re, you’re running like a very lean team here.

46:14A hundred percent. I think it has to be lean. Cause I think a big problem with, with NFT brands was a lot of them raised a bunch of money, right?

46:21Had a bunch of big teams. When you have big teams and you raise a bunch of money, there’s pressure to, to make a bunch of money as well.

46:28Um, and that pressure comes with having to, having to sell a lot of product.

46:33Like you said, a hundred thousand pieces in the first year and stuff like that.

46:37And that’s sort of what I want to avoid.

46:39Like I want to build to that eventually, but I don’t want to have to be forced into that funnel of, you know, if you don’t make this much, you’re not, you’re not reaching your bottom line by the end of the year.

46:49And you’re going to go, you know, into the negatives.

46:51And that’s sort of what I want to avoid. I want to keep it lean, keep it light, um, keep it exciting, keep people involved only if they want to be involved and, and don’t like force anything down people’s throat.

47:02So, yeah, no, it totally makes sense.

47:07Uh, gee, I see you have the, uh, chart here pulled up.

47:11I’d love to talk about what we’re seeing on the NFT collectible side.

47:15Obviously got a big pop yesterday into the announcement.

47:19Um, you know, coinbilly, I got to ask, like, does this, does the, like the price being down so hard off of all time highs, like what we were around like 10 E and, you know, all that, that volume now we’re much lower.

47:34Or like, what, how are you approaching that?

47:36Are you even thinking about it or worry about it?

47:38Or is it just like, Hey, over time expecting this to go higher?

47:42Yeah. I mean, listen, it’s hard, right? Like people look at the floor price, the floor price, but, um, it’s, I think that was also a big problem of like Markus trying to build it again himself was.

47:56It’s, it’s original ownership ties to the original like floor price and what it was at.

48:01So, you know, ideally maybe one day we get back to those levels, but the expectation of getting there and like whatever you do right now is not going to get to that level.

48:11I mean, I have some, some plans again, like I said, on the digital side to experiment and have some fun and hopefully, you know, make moves here.

48:18But I’m not thinking too much about that.

48:20Like I said, I’m thinking just to create a cool collectible brand.

48:22Um, to me, when I got into NFTs, these, these NFTs, people thought about them as like, you know, edition zero of these brands.

48:33And if these brands become the next Pokemon or the next Disney, you own the core of it.

48:37Like, right. That was what everyone was thinking of like, you know, how they’re defending these collections and these prices.

48:42And I think we’re almost getting back to that now because of how the prices aren’t so crazy.

48:48Like back then people bought Invisible Friends for two, $300,000.

48:52Like the only person buying something for two, $300,000 is a trader that’s expecting hopefully for it to go up, you know?

48:59And I think that’s what we got away from with the craziness.

49:03And we’re sort of back to the core beliefs of NFTs as like these collectible brands, you know, digital collectibles and that word instead of an NFT that’s sort of just a tradable asset.

49:14If that makes sense.

49:16Yeah, I know Gary, Gary Vee has stayed on that, that narrative relentlessly since 2021.

49:24Um, and obviously the Pokemon collectors, physical craze has really, uh, captured that, that void that NFTs have left in the collectibles market.

49:35Um, but if anything, I think it’s strengthened this idea of, right, like the V zeros, like what is the original and then collecting stuff because you like it and love it and, uh, want to be part of something that you see ultimately having more cultural significance over time.

49:52Yeah. Yeah. And you almost see now the, like.

49:54Like. The NFT-ification of Pokemon cards, if you would call it that.

50:00Like the gotchas and the blind, like all these experiences that are almost taking away from the collectability of Pokemon.

50:08And that’s why everyone’s calling that it’s like a bubble and that it’s going to pop soon and all that.

50:12I’m sure everyone sees all of that.

50:15Do you think it’s a bubble? Do you think it’s going to pop?

50:18I mean, like you’re seeing all these, like it’s becoming too much, a little too much gambling, right?

50:25Like it’s just becoming people buying these packs and selling them right back for 90% without redeeming it ever.

50:30It’s not collectible. The thing that Pokemon has is years and years and years and decades of, you know, culture and collectability.

50:38So you’re going to always have those collectors.

50:41But yeah, if I was a big collector, I would be selling right now.

50:45Maybe buying back in a year or two.

50:47I’ll tell you that. There have been a lot that have been saying that over the last few weeks.

50:52But to your point, I feel like we’ve had, we’ve like almost come full circle, right?

50:59Of like we had digital products, then people wanted the fully IRL products, these cardboard pieces.

51:06And now they’re coming back on chain. And, you know, I think Coinbase and a lot of other large players kind of buying up a lot of the supply on the market at prices that are way higher than they were even like three, four months ago kind of tells you things are getting like a little nutty there.

51:25Yeah. And I love to see it. Like I love to see people that held and collected being able to cash out like this.

51:30I think that’s a big thing. And, you know, I know that people are buying up Invisible Friends like this.

51:37This is one guy who bought a few hundred over the past couple of years while they were sort of at 0.02, 0.03, 0.04 ETH.

51:44So like those guys are probably the guys that are selling right now and trying to liquidate because those are the guys that were buying to sell.

51:52But you’re going to see now like the listing number was pretty light.

51:55When I bought it, there was only like 60 listed.

51:58Yeah, I saw that. It was under 1% listed. Yeah, no, it’s crazy. And like you’re seeing now, it’s raised up because the people who bought waiting for this announcement are listing and are selling, which is totally fine.

52:08But there’s so few of them and there’s still so few listed that as people are buying just to collect and just the people that are buying to be bullish on the brand, you’re going to see hopefully one day it becomes that Pokemon where, you know, 10 years from now it’s going to be like, holy shit.

52:24Like, you know, Invisible Friends is so dope and there’s people buying because they’re back to the gambling side and the original believers are the ones who are the ones that are able to cash out like that.

52:35So that’s sort of how I’m thinking about it.

52:38Yeah. What’s your dream collab slash like dream?

52:44Like, obviously now that you’re in charge, you can do whatever you want.

52:47What, what is like your, your halo ending here for like where you want to see Invisible Friends end up or you want to create?

52:55Yeah. Um, I have a few different visions, like I have a few different goals written down that I’m trying to get to.

53:02Um, I have this vision of, um, you know, in New York, you see like those, uh, KAWS is huge, like 30 foot tall KAWS sculptures and lobbies and like on like Park Avenue in the city, just cause cause such a cultural icon.

53:18Like I see Invisible Friends being, um, that in the future, just like such a cultural icon, like around the world, just placing it in these, in these huge, just out of the world type of, of ways.

53:30Like I see it like that, you know, collaborating with KAWS is dope, but then also, you know, just having fun with it.

53:36Like I would love, you know, I know it’s, it’s sort of far fresh and not many people get it, but like even like a Legos collaboration or even a KAWS collaboration, but getting to like that level of just cultural, um, you know, strength and being able to, to do these things and just, you know, have it just vibe with people and have them feel a certain way when they see the brand is, yeah, that’s, that’s sort of my goal.

54:01I love it. I love it. I think that vision of, uh, something like this is really important because it is kind of just a, how creative can you be, uh, type moment for a lot of, uh, companies that are, that fall into this category.

54:18Yeah. No, I’m, I’m just excited, man.

54:21Like it’s been so many years and it’s finally time to build and make something cool out of this.

54:27Yeah. Well, I’m looking forward to it. I know I speak for a lot of people. I see, obviously there’s a lot of love on the timeline.

54:34So looking forward to, to what you’re working on next.

54:38Um, you know, I, we always, we always, uh, try to catch up and hang out whenever I’m in the city.

54:43So hopefully I get to see you soon.

54:46Um, but yeah, thank you for coming on the show.

54:48I really appreciate it. Yeah. No, thank you again for having me. And yeah, of course I’m always down to hang out when you guys are in the city.

54:55I’m looking forward to, uh, seeing what you do, man.

54:59I know the community is, um, we’re, we’re cheering for you.

55:02Can’t wait. Uh, also for whatever you’re cooking up on the collectible side.

55:07Um, certainly, as you said, it looks great on a shelf.

55:11It’s something that has its own recognizable brand.

55:15Um, and again, love to see people chasing their dreams.

55:18Uh, you, you can tell that you’re excited, motivated, and you’ve wanted this for a long time.

55:24No, thank you. Thank you for the kind words guys. And thanks for having me. Of course, guys, if you haven’t already, make sure you’re following invisible friends on X.

55:33You can follow coinbilly, uh, on X as well at coinbilly.

55:37Um, and make sure you’re keeping your eyes on what invisible friends does in the near future.

55:44Gee, fantastic show.

55:47Uh, lots going on. We’ve got a weekend. We’ve got to make it through until Tuesday, our next show.

55:52Anything on the radar as we head into that?

55:56No, I think just kind of looking at these headlines, uh, hopefully not more insane hacker stuff comes out.

56:04But I think that that’s what a lot of my group chats are, are really focused on right now.

56:09So, you know, I think just keep your eyes out, keep your agents run these security audits and checks as often as possible.

56:17And obviously if you’re running a business and, and whatnot, it’s, uh, I think some of that data is even more important than, uh, if it’s a personal, just a personal thing.

56:26So, but yeah, I, I think this is something that affects everybody.

56:30So keep an eye out for that.

56:32And I’m sure we’ll have new updates next week on Tuesday as more stuff comes out.

56:36Yep. We’ll be monitoring, uh, our core asset list that we did talk about in the last show that I have on my radar.

56:42We have lighter SpaceX, uh, we have net BTC Hyperliquid, and obviously the spy.

56:49Um, I think across the portfolio, again, my recommendation, as G mentioned at the beginning of the show, stay patient, uh, keep your eyes on the market.

56:58Don’t overextend into anything.

57:00Um, I’m still quite bullish on the perpetual side.

57:04So eyes on Hyperliquid and lighter here.

57:06Um, the one core thing I’ve noted after watching the full port show.com dashboard on the Hyperliquid verse lighter, uh, competition is that lighter has been the higher gainer, more volatile than Hyperliquid, which I think is to be expected because of the, uh, the valuation there.

57:26But if you’re bullish on perps, obviously you have to be considering lighter to an extent.

57:32Um, so I’ll keep that on everybody’s radar until then though.

57:36Uh, until next Tuesday show, enjoy your weekends, uh, enjoy your football.

57:41Good luck to everybody. Uh, we’ll catch you on the next show. Cheers.