KeyboardMonkey Outtrades Memecoiners and Building Yeet

0:52What is up, everybody? We are back. Join gear of gmoney. As you’ve probably seen in the markets over the last 24 hours, 48 hours, there is mass euphoria.

1:03We’re seeing all-time highs or local all-time highs across the board. The pump is on. You know, if you’re a trader right now, G, now’s the time.

1:13And if you’ve made it through the bear, if you’re stuck around, you’re getting rewarded right now. We’re seeing more and more people come into crypto.

1:20There’s new capital injection coming in. And, you know, not the planes of the meme, but I’m a true believer that we’re actually starting to see more creators from a content and media perspective start to make names, get notoriety.

1:34Whether or not that’s only inside our ecosystem or external, it’s truly happening now where it’s cool to be a trader and more people want to do it because it’s like the new streaming.

1:45It’s like the new YouTube creator meta almost.

1:49Do you think, okay, so do you think that’s just because we’re in our echo chamber or do you think that’s real?

1:55No, no, no. Look.

1:56Have you been spotted on the street yet?

2:00Yeah, but. Let’s go, Hunter. Yeah, 21, 22, like last cycle.

2:06No, I’m talking about in the last, like, month.

2:09In the last month?

2:12I would, I’d love to get, like, ThreadGuy or Rasmur on here and be like, how much?

2:16Because, like, I remember at peak NFTs, I would be walking around Manhattan and, like, random people would be like, yo, G-Money.

2:22I’m like, what? I’m like, and, like, almost like mini celebrity status.

2:27I’m super curious. Obviously, because Rasmur and ThreadGuy live in New York and they’ve been streaming a bunch over the last two years.

2:35I’m super curious how often they get stopped on the street.

2:39You know, I haven’t. Because we’re in the bubble. I recently got stopped on the street. I did have an Uber driver.

2:44I had an Uber driver who was like, yeah, I trade crypto.

2:47And I was like, oh, that’s sick. I was like, who do you follow? And he started listing people. And I think he said you.

2:53And I was like, oh, shit, you probably know me. I was like, he’s like, Hunter.

2:57He’s like, oh, the only Hunter I know is, like, Hunter O’Rell.

2:59And I was like, that’s me. And he was like, no way. And I was like, oh, my God, I’m about to get robbed right now.

3:06I was like in the, like, little, like, sketchiest part of Brooklyn.

3:10I was like, it’s over. We’re done.

3:12No, but I’m sure they have to at this point, right?

3:15Like, it’s big enough. I know.

3:18I had a girl send me a TJR clip being like, should I buy crypto?

3:24But she didn’t send me anybody else. But TJR was already on the other side.

3:29You know what I mean? Like, he was already, like, I would consider him more, like, a TikTok guy before, like, a crypto guy.

3:36You know what I mean? Like, he was, he, like, he made his name on TikTok.

3:39Yeah. Can we talk about the clipping side real quick?

3:42Because I think you and I have a little bit of insight here.

3:44Like, there’s clearly a little cabal that is running the same playbook of, and maybe cabal is not the right word.

3:50But we’re starting to see it clearly become, like, a meta where I think ThreadGuy, Rasmus, banks, all, like, this, and TGR also, Rez probably also sees it.

4:04Like, trading actually will become, like, an archetype for the creator economy.

4:10And meme coins were really stupid, and crypto was really stupid, and none of this was cool from previous cycles.

4:18But now that the president, his family, and, you know, we have some people that are putting out content and being, like, look how much money we’re making.

4:27I mean, it does feel like we’re rounding the corner where it’s, like, hey, now it’s cool being on a leaderboard is cool, having a mass following, and, like, doing merch and having these live streams.

4:38Like, it’s cool all of a sudden.

4:40I think it took a solid decade for it to get accepted as a technology, and now you’re starting to see over the last couple years it get accepted as something that people do.

4:54Crypto or trading? Both. Both. I, like, I think trading’s always been cool.

4:59Trading’s been around for 100 years, 100 plus years.

5:03Trading. Okay. I guess here’s my thing, and I’d love to get KBM on when he comes on.

5:09Yes, we have special guest KBM today. It’s, like, dude, trading, like, trading, like, all these clips are, like, glorifying the lifestyle.

5:18Like, don’t get me wrong. Trading’s fucking awesome. You can afford anything you want.

5:22But, like, the day, the daily grind of trading to be good, to be competitive is very boring, right?

5:31It is, like, it is not traveling around the world on private jets and, like, driving Lambos and getting bottle service at whatever, at a beach club.

5:43Like, trading is sitting at your desk, glued to your screen, and even when you’re not at your screen, you’re still glued to, like, at your desk, you’re still glued to your screen because every micro movement in the market you need to capitalize on.

5:54Okay, well, let’s, let’s, okay, this is such a, I love this topic that we’re starting here, but, yeah, you gotta take, like, the actual trader, like, a guy who wakes up and walks to work and sits down at his desk and goes home, sleeps, and just repeats that seven days a week versus the trader, like, the actual content side.

6:13And that is what I think has made the breakthrough here, which is, if you tried to make crypto content or trading content, yes, you can make content on, like, equities, and we’ve seen people, you know, do very well there from, like, a business and newsletter standpoint for equities and options trading.

6:30But for crypto specifically, you could not break out of our little ecosystem.

6:36And if you did, everybody is, like, look at this clown that is so stupid.

6:42Now, in this, like, and I would, I would say AI has helped it because of this, like, everybody’s, like, I gotta get out of the rat race, this is my time, I gotta make it, and now crypto’s, like, this is the way.

6:52But also, part of that is that it’s now easier to buy tokens, right?

6:56Like, I even, like, if I were to tell somebody, be, like, hey, buy this token, right?

7:00Now, it’s easier for them to buy it. If they have a Coinbase app, if it’s listed on Coinbase, if it’s not listed on Coinbase, I could be, like, hey, download this app, and you can buy it on this app, right?

7:10Whereas previous cycles, right, in 2021, bro, like, I try, like, trying to onboard people into NFTs, trying to onboard people into, you know, buying, I don’t know, synthetics on chain, if it wasn’t listed, like, good luck.

7:27You know what I mean? Like, I gotta spend, like, an hour of my day to get you to buy something.

7:30Now, I’m just like, yo, download FOMO, and, like, here’s the ticker, right?

7:35And much easier. So, I think it has to do with that more.

7:38So, I think before, people that would make content catered only mostly to crypto people, because, like, if I saw a token, if you saw a token, you know how to buy it.

7:50You’re like, all right, just give me the contract address.

7:52I put it in to Uniswap.

7:53I’ve done this a million times. I know what I’m doing. Right. If I were to tell somebody, buy this contract, like, like, even to this day, like, I’m like, if this thing’s not listed on Coinbase, I can’t tell my friend to buy it.

8:05Like, so, because then it’s going to take me, like, an hour of my time to get them to set up, like, an on-chain wallet to be able to buy this on-chain.

8:13And they’re going to be- Yeah, that plays in, that’s, like, a big part of it, which is everybody’s, like, this is my last chance to make money and get out of, you know, the underclass.

8:23Now, it’s super easy just to download something and put it in an email and get a wallet and fund it with Apple Pay.

8:30And now that everything is, like, social and the wallet infrastructure is all abstracted out, you have people being able to just be like, all right, that’s cool.

8:40I want to make money. I’m in, deposit. Oh, I made money. This is sick. I want to be, like, the, like, I want to be the biggest now in this sector.

8:48And, like, the Cuban competitiveness nature comes out.

8:53But I do think- Which, I mean, we spoke about yesterday, right, is, like, I mean, these are hot wallets on people’s phones.

8:59Like, this is, you know, like, it’s been real quiet in France recently, man.

9:05Dude, if I had a hot wallet, if I had a hot wallet with seven figures on it, like, I would not, like, nobody would know where I was.

9:13You know what I mean? Like, ever, like, in real time.

9:15I would, like, not want to be known where I, because, dude, like- I tell you, I’ve never told this story.

9:21Personal risk is insane.

9:23We went to the, we went to me, my brother Dylan, Tropo Farmer, Rhetoric, who’s a close friend.

9:31We all went to the Ford Ape concert in Brooklyn at the Steel Mill, or whatever it was called.

9:39We were sitting in the crowd, and, like, I pull out my Meta Mask, and we had been doing a very big transaction earlier in the day.

9:47And I had moved money into what I thought at the time, like, was a cold wallet, but I had put it into a hot wallet.

9:55And we’re sitting in this crowd. GM Louis hat. And somebody was like, oh, like, can you pull up? Like, what do you have? And I opened my MetaMask thinking like, all right, there’s probably only a couple hundred dollars on the hot wallet. And like the number pops up as I’m like holding the phone out like this. And everybody like stares at me. They’re like, holy fuck, you have that? Like, I mean, it was millions. Right. And I, I quite literally was like, I need this, like, send this off of the phone immediately because I had like three dozen people around me all seeing this. And everybody’s like, oh my God, this guy’s got like all this money on his phone. And I was like, I’m going to die tonight. If right. Yeah. It’s like, it’s scary. It’s scary. Yeah. I mean, dude, like I do you think this new class understands it though? Like we understand it. We’ve I’ve I’ve had friends get kidnapped. I’ve I’ve seen people have fingers chopped off. Like we’ve seen things go crazy over the last decade. Have you been around since early? Like, I don’t know how you operate, but like, I never post where I am in real time ever. Like, you know, cause it’s just like, I mean, that’s why I’m private on Instagram now. Like I, I enjoy sharing what I’m up to, but, um, you know, I, yeah, I mean, I, I, um,

11:11yeah, like I’ll post usually like I’ll post something maybe as I’m leaving or like after I left or whatever, but like, I won’t, like, if I, if I get to the spot, like I generally won’t post it in real time for my, like my own safety, right? Like I don’t know, but like, what’s, you know, like it’s, I don’t know. I, it’s a good, it’s, I think this is a good chat for anybody who’s new in trading, getting into it, understand that you’re walking around with either whether it’s FOMO, the pump fun app, loot, uh, MetaMask, phantom, whatever. If that is on your phone, I almost, I almost think that like these apps, I almost think these apps, and I know this isn’t, I don’t even know if they’re designed this way. So my question to you is, as the loot founder is, um, is there a way to kind of make it not like, uh, like a double, like you can’t take money out. Like if let’s say I would be like, Hey, look, I have a million dollars on my loot account. I obviously trade, let’s say I traded for my phone. I know you can trade on both, but I want to like kind of throttle, um, the sending somehow. Right. So that I have or something, something so that like doable, like you could have two factor, you could have

12:25hardware, key release, like some other stuff, because it’s like, I’d be like, yeah, like I want to trade on my phone. I understand the, like the appeal and the allure of trading on your phone, right? You’re on the go, you put on a trade, boom, you’re in, you’re on the leaderboard, all this stuff. But then, but I also want to make sure that nobody can like come up to me and kidnap me. And they’re like, give me all the money on your phone. I’ll be like, I like don’t have access to the money on my phone. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Well, these, these are not like unsolvable problems. These are, you know, a day. I think these are, listen, if this is the beginning of the bull market and, uh, we’re going much higher from here, a lot of these balances are about to get pretty nutty and this is going to become a real concern for people. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it’s just something anybody that’s building a mobile app should be thinking about. Yeah. You’re not pranksy walking around with 20 million and, uh, nobody really knows who you are. It, if you know, New York, New York is a, is the jungle, man. People are going to find out. I have a feeling here, uh, unfortunately, but, um, look, the whole reason we’re having this conversation is we are back in

13:36the bull market without a doubt. Um, Trump is Trumping. We have, uh, an incredible rally. Uh, we, we saw some, I think some rate numbers came up this morning. Uh, not fully sure. I saw something around that, but everything’s, everything looks pretty optimistic here. And I have somehow not made a million dollars in the last two days, which, um, yeah, same. I mean, I, listen, I hear you. I, but here’s the thing. Um, there’s going to be plenty of opportunity to make money.

14:13Exactly. So, you know, I, I’m annoyed. I, I didn’t, um, like, I, I think I took, I said it yesterday, right? Like I saw the news. I like had a phone call. I missed like the first move. So then it’s like really hard. Like I bought some, uh, BNB, um, whatever, two days ago, I think I said, I sold a little bit. Great call on the BNB. I think. Um, it was, uh, let me bring it up. Let’s see. Um, nope, not on my list. I’m still, dude, still getting used to this bad boy. Yeah. So I, I bought it, I think at like six, I bought it around here. I bought it in this area. I sold a little bit this morning on this pullback. Do you think we have a pullback here? I’ve seen, uh, easy, easy eats. Um, I’ve been chatting with a little bit more than I usually do over the recent days, but I saw him tweet out. He said, I think, uh, we revisit lows one more time. Uh, I can’t tell if that’s just a contrarian tweet just to, just to be the only person not saying higher in the room, um, or what, but you know, look, we’ve had insane numbers, 20, 30% gains across the board.

15:24Um, it feels like it will see a pullback of some sorts here. Yeah. I’ve also seen the chart of like 23 K Bitcoin, where if you waited for a pullback there, the next time it pulled back was like around 80 K. Um, so you just missed the entire cycle. Um, I, I definitely think there’s probably gonna be some pullback. There’s going to be like some consolidation. The question is how much do we pull back? Um, listen, I, I think the market took what Besson did as a very, very, very dovish, you know, I, and I, I know people were attributing, like, I think the pump like yesterday to kind of like, uh, Trump saying something about like actually, uh, buying Bitcoin on the open market for the Bitcoin reserve. Honestly, like, I don’t, I don’t know if that’s me that there’s some incremental buying from that, but I really do think the majority, the reason why we’re seeing a violent move like this is because, um, I don’t know. I don’t think market participants in like the bond market and FX market necessarily thought that, um, we’d be doing this with the stock market at all time highs. Right. So I think to me, right. Like, look, this is, this was when the announcement was made, uh, rates went down, reversed the entire

16:44trade yesterday. And now we’re like at or above yesterday’s levels. Besson, uh, I think in a press conference or he was asked a question and he said something to the tune of, uh, we have asymmetric information. We have information that the market doesn’t. So, you know, we have like, we, we know the full deck. We know that’s what he was saying. Right. And obviously as an official, he, he wants to, he wants to, uh, strong on the market. Right. Like he, like for him, it’s best if the market’s like, Oh shit, he’s got tricks up his sleeve. What does he know that we don’t? Yeah. He’s got an ace of square people. Right. Like kind of like, I mean, this is what the whole forward guidance stuff started. And a lot of it started with Greenspan, right. Where he would, he would kind of like talk of like, this is what we’re going to do. And so then the market starts doing the job for him when they’re like, Oh, if this is what they’re willing to do, right. Like that’s where like the fed put comes from. It came from Greenspan in, uh, was he in 98 or was he right after? I don’t remember, but like, it came from him being like, this is what we will do. And so because of that, the market started doing it, uh, started doing his work. So now the issue right here is the 10 year

17:54has, uh, retraced back to highs. Um, maybe he’s going to have to increase the amount. He’s going to have the strong arm even more. But like, I think to me, like the, the, what the, what Bitcoin’s reacting to, um, where is gold, what gold is reacting to gold highs, right.

18:15New all time highs is the fact that this is happening with the S and P 500 down. I don’t even know what percentage that is. That’s less than 5% from all time highs. Right.

18:28So do you think would, would like, would something break? Are you, are we expecting something like something would break here? Cause it doesn’t make sense that it’s happening while we’re at all time highs. Like, do you think to me, it shows that like, there’s something that central bankers are concerned about, right. This is why there was intervention in the end, uh, a couple of weeks ago. And that’s kind of what it started a lot. Like that, that’s when that’s like, you know, I’ve, I’ve said it now a couple of times, this up move started after the weekend intervention here, but bottom gold, like intervention in the yen, right. This move is, uh, buying the long end of the curve. That’s what Besson did, whatever Wednesday. And so the fact that usually these types of things start happening when the market’s in turmoil, right. When there’s a bank failing, when, you know, there’s a lot of despair going on in the world. So like, usually you wouldn’t expect this type of intervention unless the S and P was down like 20%, 15%, 30%, you know, like these, these like big down moves, kind of like what we were seeing with like AI, like last month, where like people are just like, Oh my God, these things are going to go down another 50%.

19:42That’s like, and like, that was just like one sector. Right. But if the market is down like that and the market is imploding like that, that’s when like the central bankers.

19:51Is this all lined up around like with, with the AI?

19:55Uh, flush out. Like, could, could it make sense that there’s a country or a bank or, like, a very massive player that got caught up in that somehow? And we just, like, it’s been.

20:06I’m sure, I’m sure that that’s a possibility. I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t say no, right? Um, but I, I think, like, I go, I go back to the reason, and maybe this, this kind of maybe plays into the thesis I was, I’ve been talking about for, I mean, almost a year at this point, of, if you view AI as defense spending, um, and, and, like, a matter of national defense, we have to, like, we can’t stop the AI build out, right? So if AI implodes, um, then, like, funding for AI also implodes, and then we lose that race, right? And so if the government is, let’s say, let’s say this is all AI related, then it would make sense why they might be intervening right now, because they’re like, oh, if rates get too high, then, um, the hyperscaler interest rates go up, then we can’t build more data centers, then the AI build out slows down, and pretty much all growth in the US economy for the last three, four years is, is tied to AI.

21:03And then, that makes, like, that, that’s where my head went, though, is, like, this is AI related, and there, there’s a thumb on the scale type thing happening, and that information, like, when they’re, like, we have information you don’t have, it’s, all right, like, we have to, we have to keep acceleration going.

21:20Um, well, here’s the thing is, I think when, when Besant was saying, we have information you don’t have, I think he was kind of saying is, like, he was saying that to strong arm it, he was, like, because if you’re saying that the reason why he did this is because the AI trade is imploding, then that would say we’re in a position of weakness, and then the market’s definitely going to call his bluff.

21:40Uh, I didn’t listen to the actual clip, but, um, I think he was implying that we know growth acceleration is coming, and so for that reason, we’re willing to, like, intervene here.

21:53The market thinks that, let’s say, growth is slowing, so interest rates should be going higher, um, it’s, it’s more probably of that.

22:00Like, he’s, he’s trying, whether or not, like, they feel, like, in a position of strength, it’s like a bluff, right?

22:06Like, you’re playing poker, right? And he’s playing poker against, like, the biggest market participants in the world, that if they, if they think he doesn’t have the nut flush, like, you’re going to call him out.

22:18Right, and we’re, like, we’re playing our own game of poker, just watching, like, betting on that game, essentially.

22:23Yeah, like, well, I mean, we’re participants, right? I have not thought of it this way, yeah.

22:27We’re participants in it, um, and, like, we make our decisions of where we think, you know, the risk, that’s why I think going back to, like, the oil, the oil trade, that’s why, like, I never like trading oils, because, like, there’s so many other factors at play that I can’t, like, I don’t know what Kuwait thinks of, like, what they’re going to do with their national output, and that, like, obviously affects the global price of oil, you know what I mean?

22:51And so it’s, like, but at least I think with, like, you know, the largest central banks, you have an idea of what they’re trying to do, right?

22:57Like, you know what Trump wants to do, right?

22:59He wants to get reelected. He wants to send the stock market to all-time highs.

23:02He wants to lower rates, right? Like, we know these things, so then through that lens, you can kind of create, like, some sort of a thesis around what you think should happen under those conditions, right?

23:15And again, that’s why I think, like, Bitcoin, gold, they’re both bids so strong is for that reason, right?

23:21It’s just that, like, you know, I think people are, like, well, we’re at all-time highs.

23:26We’re effectively at all-time highs in the market, and we’re easy.

23:31That’s incredible, like, the basement trade.

23:34Like, I can’t say it’s bullish because, like, that just means the price of everything is about to go up again.

23:38So it’s, like, you just want to own, like, hard assets, right?

23:41So, like, the price of everything being, like, yeah, gold’s going up, Bitcoin’s going up, but also the price of your coffee is now going to go up as well, right?

23:49So, well, look, I’m looking forward to my $25 Starbucks coffee when I go to New York.

23:56Dude, I mean, you’re already almost close, right?

24:01Well, look, I’m a very simple coffee order guy.

24:03I’m not ordering, like, a tri-triple latte vanilla soybean white girl Wednesday coffee, although I know I give that energy.

24:13So, okay, so let’s touch on your take here because we’ve talked a lot about, like, how we see things kind of moving, why they’re moving, maybe some thesis around it on trading.

24:30You and I kind of have joked, you know, we’re not sitting here coming on the show being, like, hey, we just made $10 million in the last 48 hours.

24:39Um, what, is there a trade here?

24:41Are you, what are you looking for?

24:43How are you approaching it?

24:45So, so, yeah, so I have, like, I have, I think, two-thirds of my BNB position still on, kind of, like, moving up, like, my, my mental trip trailing stop on it.

24:56Um, I did it on, like, a little bit of leverage, like, my, I, again, I missed the first move, and I think I missed the second leg.

25:04Like, and so now it’s, like, all right, like, I’m trying to catch a little bit here, but, like, I also am trying not, I don’t want to blow up, right?

25:09So, it’s, like, you know, I bought that, like, cash, and then I think I went, like, 50% leverage, right?

25:16Like, so, one and a half X.

25:18Um, I didn’t really go, like, much size, but whatever.

25:21A good trade is a good trade. I just think that there’s going to be, you know, the majors are moving, right?

25:26Then, at some point, on-chain will probably pick up, and on-chain season is probably where we see, like, the crazy shit, right?

25:36Like, where you can really, you know, 10 to 50X relatively quickly, just because there’s smaller market caps, smaller tokens.

25:45So, as money, like, flows into them, um, they’re going to go higher, right?

25:49And so, yeah, I just, I think, like, as a trader, am I annoyed?

25:54Like, I can’t be that annoyed, personally, um, that I miss some of these trades, because, like, I’m not sitting in front of my screen all day, um, trying to trade this, right?

26:03So, but I do know that there’s going to be more opportunities, so that makes me more optimistic.

26:08Right. Yeah. What are, like, dude, ETH, like, 2400, like, I mean, people were, like, texting me, I’m not in crypto, texting me, like, three months ago, be like, ETH is dead.

26:19Huh? And then, like, I mean, now it’s, like, yeah, dude, it’s up.

26:23Bro, they hadn’t met Gnodic yet, man.

26:26He came in and actually saved ETH from the, like, bottom tick ETH with FWA.

26:32Yeah. So, I don’t know.

26:35And, you know, you know who couldn’t run for their ledger fast enough the second we had this up move was the ETH Foundation.

26:40Already selling into, into the call.

26:43Are they selling already? No. I believe so. I believe they were selling a little bit the other day yesterday.

26:47Oh, my God. It’s, uh. Jesus Christ. But, like, so, I mean, CMS Holdings, obviously very smart guys, very smart traders.

26:56They had a really good observation of the DATs, the way they were reflexive to the downside, they will also be reflexive to the upside.

27:06So, at some point, we’re, when their, uh, when their price is above MNAF, they’ll probably start issuing shares to buy more of their assets.

27:16So, it starts becoming reflexive to the upside, right?

27:18So, that could be interesting as well, you know, if Tom Lee gets another couple billion dollars to, to double down here.

27:26Oh, my God. You know what I mean? Like, do they’re getting, this could be, like, the most insane bailout story of all time.

27:32I mean, like, not, not. I wouldn’t call it a bailout. I mean, it’s just, like, trading their way out of it, you know?

27:36Yeah, they traded their way out of it.

27:38But still, like, look, these guys were, I mean, they’re just getting dunked on 24-7 for the last couple months.

27:46You gotta respect the hell out of it.

27:50Damn, that is crazy. Okay, so, on the, on the lower market cap side, what are, what do you have on your radar?

27:57What do you, what do you think is being overlooked?

27:58Like, what do you, do you have, like, a token that you’re like, eh, I don’t know what it’s gonna do, but it’s just, if it caught the right narrative, it could be interesting.

28:10Well, FWA, I’ve been talking about it.

28:12Okay, yeah, I’ve heard about it.

28:16I think anybody that’s been looking at my wallet knows I’ve been buying Quotrons, very low market cap, so I don’t, like, do, do your own research, DYOR, not financial advice.

28:28I just think it’s very interesting. It’s a one-way 404.

28:31It’s an RWA play. I think it’d be really cool, but I, like, implore you to do your own research on it.

28:39Yeah, I just think, like, I think on-chain, like, again, like, to me, the most interesting primitives I’ve seen on-chain are RWAs and what FWAs, RWAs and FWAs, right?

28:55And so, like, I just think, like, these are really cool primitives.

29:00I saw him, that guy, him, Jira, him, I don’t even know how he knows.

29:05Oh, yeah, yeah. He posted yesterday on Twitter.

29:09Let me bring it up.

29:12Him, him, God, Gadria, him, Gadria.

29:18Where was it? He goes, 2017 ICOs, 2020 DeFi, 2022 NFTs.

29:24Each a novel primitive, yet each a failed experiment.

29:28For each was ahead of its time. A mistake. I’d say there’s seeds to be planted amongst our string pullers without whom we’d forever be outlaws.

29:35Prediction they will be revived, right?

29:37And so, like, I think you and me probably mostly agree with what he’s saying.

29:42And, you know, like, I tweeted, I responded to him, and I was like, yeah, and I think, like, all three of them are going to be coming together.

29:48And I kind of think we’re, like, seeing that already.

29:50You know, I think Stomp Brokers is a good example.

29:54Quotrons, I think, is, like, an interesting example of, like.

29:57The merging of NFTs and how you can utilize these primitives beyond just being pictures.

30:02And this was like, I always loved this about NFTs, even like last cycle is like everything is an NFT, right?

30:10Your house is an NFT, your mortgage is an NFT, this hat’s an NFT, this watch is an NFT, right?

30:15There’s everything, right?

30:17And so now we’re starting to see, okay, like NFTs being used in more interesting ways.

30:23Now we have RWAs because like, I think like with DeFi, right, we had a lot of really cool primitives.

30:30The problem was when we were paying people yield, you’re paying people in the token to like, like you’re giving them the yield, right?

30:38You’re distributing the token. So then that causes downward pressure on the token, right?

30:42So that there was always that joke during DeFi summer of like, you know, two, like you’re the yield, you know, like you’re the end of the yield, right?

30:50And so you never, you know, you want it to be in pool too early so you can farm more yield, right?

30:56That’s where you would get like the, you know, 50,000 APY, but that’s because like the smart money was just selling into you and locking in their gains, right?

31:04And so like you were just like that exit quickly.

31:06But now if you can pay out, like if you can pay people out in like NVIDIA, like cool, like sell NVIDIA.

31:13Like there’s fucking, you know, a trillion dollars worth of investment managers that want to buy NVIDIA, right?

31:20So like your, you know, whatever, $10 million worth of NVIDIA sales isn’t really going to move the needle there, right?

31:26So I think that that to me is like really interesting.

31:29So now you can like see how one NFTs are coming in, then like these DeFi primitives with the RWAs and how they’re integrating.

31:38And then obviously like the number one thing like that I loved about crypto, I remember when I first found crypto in 2017, well, I had found it earlier.

31:48I just like couldn’t figure out how to buy Bitcoin.

31:50But when I first like started going down the rabbit hole, I wrote this like, I think it was like a three or four page like white paper of like my thesis on the sector.

32:00And I was like, this is going to change venture investing because all of a sudden now, instead of like raising from a couple of venture investors, you know, capital formation can happen on chain.

32:10Anybody can be involved. And obviously we saw that with the 2017 ICO boom.

32:14We still always see that as the issue in crypto, right?

32:17Like people want to invest in startups and they want to have that like X, like why should Bill Gurley or whatever, insert venture capitals here, be the only guy that has, you know, the 10,000 X returns.

32:29That makes, I think maybe this is where we finally see Coinbase do something with their $400 million acquisition of ECO, you know, like, like it’s been quiet over there.

32:43I would assume they’re waiting for a bull market to get crazy with it.

32:48I also think it’s hilarious that like boldly and it is keeps posting the, like these jokes about Coinbase, how like they refuse to list a meme coin.

32:56They must have listed something and gotten sued to like the next universe over and now they’re, they’re gun shy.

33:04Like that, right. That could be it. I’m convinced of it. I mean, like, yeah, that could be it.

33:10I mean, I, so like going back to what we were saying the other day is that, you know, okay.

33:16So you look at 2017, right.

33:18ICOs, people wanted to do capital formation.

33:21Uh, kind of illegal in America, right?

33:25So like a lot of these, like ICO, there’s like the American stuff, the non-American stuff.

33:30So then they have to start raising, uh, VC money.

33:33Then VCs, right.

33:35These VC coins would launch at super high FDVs with low floats, scam retail into buying the top while they’re like selling either some VCs, the team selling their bag, whatever, all this stuff.

33:46Then meme coins come out because people are like, yeah, I want that exponential upside.

33:50The problem is that like, they were just memes.

33:53They’re like vaporware. There’s nothing. It’s like vibes, right. Um, throw in NFTs around there, right.

33:59Somewhere as well, where you could say people are, you know, it’s a collectible, right.

34:02It’s a me, uh, Kobe said it best, right.

34:05Uh, NFTs are just meme coins with pictures.

34:08Right. And so, yeah, like that, like if you think of Kurt Doze, the everything casino, then that, that definitely makes sense.

34:14And so now I think like, you know, we have the SEC coming out with some sort of regulatory clarity, which seems like you can raise, it seems like significant amounts of money and still like be under a good legal framework, you know, not breaking the law in the United States.

34:30I think it’s like $5 million for startup and up to like 75 million over the course of like a couple of years.

34:36So it’s like, you can raise a lot of money under like this token framework that they’re proposing.

34:42Like, you know, people want, people want to like do this stuff and do it like at a low FTV, you know what I mean?

34:49Like they want like access to stuff, um, obviously as early as possible, like kind of like be seed investors.

34:56Right. And I think that’s what crypto allows is like people that are smart.

35:00It’s not necessarily like, oh, like how big is your check or like whatever.

35:04I’m sure that’ll always exist. Whoever’s raising money, you obviously want to have a stack cap table because you want to have the right investors involved.

35:11You want to have like, you know, people that will help you out because they have a vested interest.

35:15But like, I don’t know.

35:17I just think that, you know, if you’re like, I remember this in 2017, I was in WhatsApp groups with kids from like, I think it was like Stanford blockchain club that were like in college still at the time.

35:30And we were sharing deal flow and they’re like, oh, I got access to this deal.

35:34You know, I have 200K here.

35:36I can only fill it for like 10K.

35:38And I’m like, oh, I have 200K in here.

35:40Like I have like this much capacity.

35:42How much do you want? And like, dude, and this is when, uh, I was using, this is before I even like MetaMask.

35:48This was my Ethereum wallet.

35:50Right. I mean, that’s how we did venture deals together on some stuff.

35:54It was just like, you know, literally texting each other and being like, all right, like I’m in for this.

35:58This year and for this, like, I mean, Justin Taylor, I did a deal where I think at the time I was like, I was like fully deployed.

36:07And I think it was like half a million dollar ticket.

36:09And I was like, I’m in for, I’m in for like 125.

36:13And then like Justin Taylor, Snoop Dogg, these like two actors from LA who are trying to get into crypto and a couple other people.

36:23Like we all put money together and like that, that deal would never have happened.

36:29I lost money on it, but, uh, the deal would never have happened had, you know, it not been possible to like just pull money instantaneously on the blockchain in like an hour.

36:38I mean, which is right.

36:40Right. Yeah. No, I mean, that’s like the cool thing about crypto, right?

36:43Like even every time I try to send a wire out of my bank more than $10,000, I have to like then, uh, call and spend like 30 minutes on hold, like verifying that who I am.

36:56And then getting asked like 50 questions of like, whether I want to send this money and this and that.

37:01I’m just like, bro, like, like, this is why, like, I, I like being able to send a, a, a wire or money out, um, in seconds or minutes, minutes, seconds, um, anywhere in the world for whatever, a couple cents.

37:17Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So I like, hopefully like all of this like comes together, uh, starts to come together this cycle.

37:24And I think that’s kind of like, you know, like I, I like make no mistake about it.

37:29I’m pretty, I am fairly certain that this up move has more to do with, uh, global liquidity than anything else.

37:35But with that global liquidity is coming new primitives that people have been building, which is interesting.

37:41And now it’s like, all right, again, at fair valuations, then like, maybe like, you know, people, I think OSF had a good, had a good, um, tweet on this earlier this week of around, like, you know, like everybody has their own trading style. Like, so I’m not going to sit here, you know, people that crush meme coins, whatever, like that’s, that’s your trading style.

38:00And I know that you’re like, oh, this is like all the Fortnite players.

38:02And, you know, you’re like a turning on.

38:04All right, cool. If that’s like your style of trading, so be it.

38:08Like, like whatever, it’s not for me.

38:10What I prefer is kind of like thematic trading.

38:13And like, there’s a story there.

38:15There’s a story behind it. Like, Hey, this is why I like this because these are the catalysts that are coming up.

38:20The catalysts aren’t in the next 10 minutes to 48 hours.

38:25The catalysts are in the next, you know, 10 days to a hundred days, maybe.

38:28So it’s more of a slow cook speaking, but like, you can probably size up.

38:34You don’t have to worry about necessarily getting rugged while you get up and go to the bathroom for 30 seconds.

38:41Right. Like there’s like, they’re all their give and takes.

38:43And I’d rather play that game personally.

38:44And that’s where I’m better.

38:46Right. I think I have more like, this is also like another game of don’t look at another person’s PNL and be like, damn, I wish I was that guy.

38:54But also don’t look at another person’s trading style and like portfolio and be like, oh, damn, that’s what I got to go do to make money.

39:02One, you’re probably late to the trade already.

39:04If you’re, if he’s, you know, positioned that way and you’re not, and they’re up a bunch.

39:08But like, I will never try to trade like specific areas.

39:15Like I know, I know meme coins.

39:17I know, I know, you know, all coins and majors, but will I jump into the equity space and like, be like, I know this space better than anybody else to try to make millions of dollars.

39:28No, aside from a few names or like a sector here and there.

39:33But like, you know, I know there are people trading orange, orange juice and coffee and, you know, metal futures and stuff.

39:42And then they’re making more than I’m making every year.

39:45And I just know like, all right, that’s their game.

39:46They know it. I’m not going to try to play it.

39:50Yeah. I mean, a lot of this is just human, like a lot of human psychology.

39:53Like, I think it’s going to have to happen this cycle for you not to be miserable.

39:57And cut your portfolio down to nothing. And I think you’re going to see in when we’re in easy mode, yes, there’s going to be tons of money made, but there will be an equal number of people that come in and just try to like literally FOMO and YOLO.

40:12Yeah, they’re going to, people are going to FOMO the top on a ton of leverage. I think we already have seen, I don’t know, somebody that was like a ton of leverage shorting Bitcoin on like the first up move that happened.

40:25And it’s like, oh, shorting a ton here and then losing like millions of dollars on Hyperliquid and stuff. It’s like, yeah, I mean, I mean, that’s what you get for gambling, right? And it’s just like, and you blow, again, I don’t know how big that person’s stack is, but it’s just something to consider, right?

40:42It’s just like, like, that’s what, like, for me, I’ll, to me, it reminds me of, there was one time like I put on this, I was short Twitter, I think I’ve said it, I don’t know if I’ve talked about it here, but I guess I’ll tell the story real quick.

40:56Twitter had reported numbers. This was, this was over 10 years ago, I think Twitter had reported numbers. It was bad. I came in, I was reading a bunch of notes on it. I’m like, these numbers are terrible.

41:10Um, the best analyst in the space, uh, Mark Mahaney at RBC came out and downgraded it pre-market and he’s the best. He’s the ax. So I start shorting more and I start loading up and I’m like, fuck yeah, like this. And the things like trending lower and lower, this thing was setting up so that like, it was kind of like one of those like seller, seller, seller.

41:30And like on the open, it was probably going to like go like to all time lows or like whatever, just like scream down. And that was probably gonna be the low for the day. And I was gonna be flat into that down move. I was gonna have like one of my better days in months or whatever. And so I’m like sitting there, I’m like figuring out like what other trades I want to put on. It’s Friday morning. Then all of a sudden nine 16, my P and L goes from like up a bunch to down a shit ton. And I’m like, what the fuck just happened?

41:59And so then I look, David Faber came on to CNBC saying, oh, um, Disney, Apple, Netflix, Amazon, Microsoft, like literally like name every fucking conglomerate all looking to buy Twitter. And this is like, what, what the fuck? And like literally got fucking destroyed on Friday morning. It’s like nine, it’s not like nine 20. I’m down a shit ton. I close out the thing.

42:28Cause like my first thought, like in these situations, like limit risk right away. And then like analyze the situation. If I want to get back in, I can short it again, but like, all right, I don’t know what’s going on. I need to get like the full picture.

42:41So I get out and I’m, I’m down a shit ton. It’s like, nah, it’s like nine, whatever, 25. And I know like the way I trade. And I know that like, whenever I’m down a big number to start the day, I just kind of go on tilt.

42:56And a lot of times in the F in, in my effort, trying to make it all back in that day, I, I like double my loss and I make it worse because I’m trading more size and this and that.

43:08So I literally just like, I remember it was like nine 29 and I just like shut off my screen. I walked out the door and I was like done for the weekend. Cause I know by that point, like earlier in my career, I would have like stayed there and I would have tried to grind it out.

43:20And I would have tried to like get back to flat, but by trying to get back to flat, I would have been trading more size. And then I would have, I wasn’t thinking clearly. And then I would have lost more.

43:30There were plenty of times that happened where I was like, I had a bad loss and then I tried to trade my way out of it. And then I doubled or tripled my loss for the day.

43:37And like, I would give back like my whole month because like I went on tilt. Right. And so like, wait, how does that work? Like obviously, cause I never work a trading job.

43:45Like you get a book, you get, you get a amount of money you can trade. And basically the job is don’t lose money, make money.

43:52No, no. So I was, I was trading prop. So I was trading my own money. Right. So I was trading a prop firm. You go somewhere, you put up capital, they give you leverage, but it’s for you. It’s first loss. Right.

44:04So let’s say I put up a hundred grand, maybe they give me like whatever a million dollars, $2 million of buying power. What more as they get more accustomed to like the way you trade and comfortable with the way you trade, you can get buying power and like more leverage, but like, it’s all dependent on like, like I was very good at like controlling my, my risk.

44:21So like, I had like, I had good leverage, but I would like never utilize it. Right. Because like, obviously the more leverage you use when you’re wrong, like when you’re right, it’s great. You’re wrong. Like you’re really wrong.

44:32Just like wipe out your thing. You wipe out your, your risk capital. So, um, yeah, it was just like a first loss model. Right. So it’s like, if I put up a hundred grand and I lost, like they’d give me all the leverage that I wanted, but as soon as I put up a hundred, as soon as I lost a hundred grand, they’d be like, all right, well, like you can’t trade anymore unless you put up more money. Right.

44:50And so that’s, that’s the way these things work. And so like at a prop firm, um, it’s like a, it’s like a thin line, right? Cause like you want to put up more money. So you have, or, uh, a, a line that you can swing. Right. But, uh, on, on the flip side is the way these things are structured, the way they give you so much leverage is that, um, you’re technically, I think it’s a class B or a class C member.

45:13So it’s not like when you trade retail, uh, at a brokerage firm, if, uh, interactive brokers goes bankrupt, your money is like up to whatever, $500,000 is insured and guaranteed by the federal government at a prop firm.

45:31If you and me are at a plot prop firm, and let’s say they have $10 million up and you lose $12 million. So you blow through all of their $10 million and lose an extra 2 million. Like, like you eat into my capital. So I’m liable for your loss. Right. So it’s like sometimes on those crazy days, like generally as a day trader, you do really well.

45:54As a prop trader, you do incredible on a lot of, on high volatility days. There’s always, always those like couple of traders though, that try to catch the bottom and they try to catch the bottom too early and they’re big traders and there’s risk of them like blowing up. I’ll never forget the, the, the flash crash. This was maybe like 15 years ago. This was maybe like the flash crash.

46:16And I remember I was at a prop firm and, um, I remember talking to the risk guy like a day or two later and he was kind of joking. He was like, yeah, man, like we had so many guys that were like so red because like also like the spy was trading at that point, like three points wide, like the spy.

46:35Oh my God. Wait, I see. I don’t remember this. That’s great.

46:37Yeah. And it was like, it was, it was crazy. This is like, again, like 15 plus years ago, this is like the original flash crash. And, uh, like, I remember like the risk guy was like, yeah, like I was basically just like opening, like I was like getting ready to, like if we went down any more and we would have had to start stopping these guys out, like we would have probably been insolvent.

46:58You know what I mean? It was just like, it was like at the edge and it was just kind of like, I was getting ready to pack it up. But like, that was always the risk and like the fear as a prop trader at an equity prop firm is that, yeah, I can make like a million dollars that day.

47:12But if like somebody blew up, like my money’s not safe. So for that reason, I would always leave as little money. Like usually prop traders, like you leave as little money in the prop firm as possible, because if God forbid that were to happen, like you, you don’t like you lose your cash. Right. So it’s like, yeah. All right, cool. Like I’ll trade it in like my interactive brokers account. Not as much leverage, obviously, but it’s like, I’m not like, if you blow up at interactive brokers, I’m not liable for your loss.

47:41Right. Yeah. No, I, I can understand that. I have not used a prop firm before. We’ve talked about standing one up with conjunction and loot. Obviously trader main with breakout prop, which was acquired by Kraken, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. That, that has been successful for, for him and clearly his value in, in the proper model.

48:07Yeah. No, they’re crushing it. I like, I, it’s funny. Cause I just recently found out of like what crypto prop looks like. And I’m like, Oh, I don’t even know like this world existed. I probably, I probably would have been deep in like the prop firm trenches. If I knew, if I knew that, cause I, I understand prop. I understand how it works. I train a lot of people on how to trade. I had like a group of traders that traded under me, but it was more fundamentals driven.

48:31But yeah. I mean, it just like some of the inner workings inside baseball of that, but like, yeah, I mean, it’s just, I think like, I, I mean, I wish we had KBM on for this, for this segment. I don’t know. He probably got hung up on something, but he’s like, from my understanding, he has a, a prop firm background as well.

48:47So. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think he traded at like one of, there’s a couple of prop firms, a couple of bigger prop firms in New York and he was trading out. We were trading at separate, at different prop firms that were like, I guess, competitors.

49:03Again, it’s an example of why I think New York, if you’re, if, even if you’re in crypto at this point, you have to be in New York. Obviously other places have better tax setups, but, you know, I think, I think New York is just such a hub for like where the biggest players are going to be born out of this cycle.

49:21Um, because I think there, I think there is an actual disadvantage to not being around the like epicenter of conversation and even in, in like a social setting, being around the players and the builders and the investors that are kind of, you know, shaking and making the industry.

49:39I, I feel like loot makes a step forward when we spend two weeks in New York as a team and are in these like conversations in these offices, going to dinner with, you know, competing companies, engineers, staff, and like.

49:55You know, obviously, obviously, like, there’s still, like, rivalry there, but then you get to see, like, oh, this is how they’re thinking, this is where concerns are, we share some, and it’s like, all right, like, it motivates you as well, it’s the best place in the world to be right now, and I think, I think this has been kind of, like, a narrative, and certainly, I think some of the guys that are living there have, like, really boosted it, but, yeah, I, like, New York is, I think, going to become, like, the place to be, and Miami, Miami’s on the down.

50:24New York, dude, New York was always the place to be, New York was always the place to be, New York will always be the place to be, I love New York, I, yeah, I mean, I love, at this point in my life, I love going to visit, I don’t know if I’d go back to live there at this point, but, like, I love New York, New York is my favorite city in the world, there’s so much cool shit to do there, there’s always something to do, always incredible food, nightlife, there’s, like, it’s just, awesome, I love New York, but, like, New York, I think, like, is maybe having its comeuppance again, maybe, like, its post-COVID glow-up, but I think New York, pre-COVID, I still like it pre-COVID, then the post-COVID world, but it’s definitely coming back to maybe what it was.

51:14Yeah, I, yeah, I think it’s, there’s so many crypto companies there now, too, which is, is crazy, there’s a, there’s a little sector around Union, Union Square, that is just, it’s everybody, and I won’t, is it, is it, I, I feel like there’s a lot, a lot of guys in, by Union Square, in Soho, there’s like.

51:36Yeah, so, it’s, it’s like, Union Square, within, like, one block of, one to two blocks of Union Square, in any direction, is just, I mean, like, the biggest, like, some of the biggest hitters in the space, like, we’re talking, like, multi-billion dollar companies, and then Soho, within, like, uh, like, a five-block radius, there are, again, some of the biggest, heaviest hitters in the space, but, like, it’s those two pockets, and I, I, I, I actually.

52:05And there’s Brooklyn, there’s the Brooklyn guys, I think there’s a lot of, uh, yeah, but no, I’m talking, like, where the company’s, like, headquarters are, like, like, there’s, like, the two main pockets, but I, I was joking, I went and get coffee, uh, by Soho Grand, um, and I, I, I was going to meet up with a bunch of, like, abstract and, uh, some, like, uh, Weekly Wisdom analyst guys who are there, but I’m at the coffee line, there is, there are two engineers sitting at the, at the table, next to, like, the, the takeout area, wearing their chain’s shirts, and quite literally, fighting their company, and, like, talking about internal, like, plans, and being, like, oh, yeah, like, I, like, I’m, like, sitting there, like, bro, you guys have.

52:51I think you, I think you tweeted this, right? I tweeted this, and I was, like, they have an active token, and I was, like, I gotta get, find a short on this, or some way to, like, get exposure.

53:00Um, and then two days later, it came out that, uh, well, I mean, I’ll just say it, like, at this point, um, and two days later, Phantom, uh, and I think also somebody else came out that they were dropping support for Monad, and I, I couldn’t, I, like, I could not believe that these guys were standing in this coffee shop, like, screaming this, basically.

53:27Um, that, that’s also what you’re around.

53:30But, like, I also think back, like, remember when you could, you could literally talk about anything, information-wise, to crypto, and be, like, yeah, nobody’s gonna know what I’m talking about.

53:39Now, it’s, like, all right, there’s probably people around you that know somebody, like, oh, I heard this guy say this at a coffee shop, what does that mean?

53:45And it’s, like, oh, wait, that’s really, really helpful information.

53:50Um, yeah, I’m not sure what’s going on at Monad.

53:53I would hope, uh, I would hope this Coinbase relationship they have continues to, uh, provide something to fruition.

54:02Obviously, Coinbase is very, very hands-on with, uh, that capital raise for their, for the round, and, uh, we’ll see.

54:11I think it’s a hard, it’s a hard world right now as a non-major layer that...

54:17What’s it trading at right now? Let’s see. Let’s see what it’s trading at.

54:19Well, I think when I looked, it was, like, basically at, at launch price, somehow, or it was, like, 10%.

54:26We have it up on the screen and pull this up.

54:28I have it up on the screen. Yeah. I mean, like, I think most people think it’s probably, like, fully, like, it’s down into the, down into the right.

54:36It’s not terrible right now, actually.

54:38It’s actually just above lunch day, it looks like.

54:43What’s the FDV?

54:46I, okay. I, I did, like, some monad round a couple years ago.

54:50I don’t know if I’m up money.

54:52Is this up? Like, my tokens probably start vesting in, like, four years.

54:55Is this up 50% this week? No way.

54:57Look at this. It’s up 50%.

55:00Um, yeah, it looks like it.

55:03Yeah, let’s see. Let’s get the token price.

55:13Yeah. Yeah, I mean, just short of it. Yeah.

55:18All right, cool.

55:20I mean, let’s get some of that. I guess, like, this is, so this is, I think, one of the interesting things, right?

55:25I feel like memes have been very, you know, PVP, right?

55:31It’s, like, uh, the, like, the, the reason why I think, like, liquidity bounces around from, like, chain to chain or token to token is just because it’s the same capital chasing, like, the same returns or whatever.

55:43I think the interesting thing, kind of, with, like, maybe, like, some of these projects now is that, like, this is money that’s been invested.

55:51It’s almost, like, people that are harvesting gains from, like, IPOs and stuff can then, like, from SpaceX can now start reinvesting that again, right?

56:00Because they have that capital and liquidity that, and I feel like it’s maybe kind of, like, the same thing, although not really because you have to have, like, people coming in to buy those tokens from them.

56:09But, like, I don’t know, it just, it could be, it could turn into a very PVE scenario on chain, right, where it’s, like, people are now, like, making money from themes.

56:21Themes, because, like, honestly, like, a token like Monad, like, you could technically, you could have bought as much size as you wanted, right, like, for the last however many months, right?

56:31So, it’s, like, if you actually, like, I think that’s, like, the interesting thing about that.

56:34Same thing with the same thing with Pump. If you wanted to have $5 million in a Pump over the last, like, sick, you’re up, you’re up with leverage, you’re probably up eight figures right now.

56:44Right. I mean, yeah. So, I mean, I think that, like, all this stuff is, like, hella interesting.

56:51In that, you know, these are, these are things that you could really size into.

56:57And because of that, wow.

56:58I mean, are you still in that? Like, you were calling it out, like, around here.

57:02Yeah, like, 17, 18, .0018.

57:07No, I am not, unfortunately.

57:09But, look, like, I think my, like, niche that I understand to trade in better than anybody, I would say I’m at, like, the top 1%, .1% at this point is, like, the consumer trade.

57:21Like, I can look at any tech, I can look at any product and tell you if it’s good or bad, and if their position for acquisition and, you know, what’s going to happen with it.

57:33Pump fund to me was obvious as hell.

57:36I think, I think, you know, I think Relay has a token.

57:44Relay is going to be in a, put in a really weird position, I think, coming forward.

57:47Like, I think you’re going to see anything around onboarding Infra that has a token that start to rip.

57:57Um, I just think, I think it’s, like, obvious, right?

58:01Like, you’re going to have more consumers coming on, they want more abstraction, and people want to trade more assets.

58:07The one that doesn’t have a token, and I think we have to give some praise to, is I think OpenSea is primed to become, like, a top 3 company in the space again.

58:18Because of, and you talked about this earlier, that tweet, NFTs, meme coins, majors, all colliding with social, which they clearly get, having a mobile application, which they do have, perps, which they now support.

58:32Um, and they haven’t dropped the token, and if they do it correctly, and they just, they slug it out of the park, like, I can see a world where, where they actually have the distribution and the support for asset classes that they can compete with anybody.

58:49So, you know, I think, I think it’s kind of this, I don’t know, I think, I think, like, the new trading class is like, oh, like, OpenSea’s the old school, like, it’s, it’s lame, it’s dumb, and I think that’s a terrible take.

59:00And I think you can’t write off Devin and, and crew, because they’re very smart people.

59:08Um, and whether you think they’ve gotten things right or wrong, again, they’re just smart, they know business, and there’s a reason they got to number one before.

59:17And there’s also a reason they survived a bear that wiped out every single one of their competitors, except for Super Rare.

59:23I think Super Rare is the only one standing at this point.

59:26Yeah, no, I mean, like, a testament to OpenSea, right?

59:29Um, I think at some point, I think, um, obviously, I think dropping a token would, would help sentiment towards them.

59:36What would you do? What would you do if they, like, if you were OpenSea dropping a token, besides getting, taking care of the OGs, um, the unks in the room, what would you do?

59:45So, I don’t know. I, I know I’m in the, I’m probably in the minority on this, in that, I don’t know if I would.

59:56Give all that much of an allocation to the OGs because like that, like, cause like, here’s the thing is, right? Like the reason why you would do it is because you’re like, you helped us get here to this valuation. That valuation is now long gone. Yeah. Right. $13 billion valuation is yesterday. I don’t know what, I don’t know what they’re at now, but it’s definitely not 13 billion. Right. And so then it’s kind of like, how do you, if you’re thinking about this from like a founder level, it’s like, how do you use those tokens to incentivize growth? Cause that should be what you should be using those tokens for. Right. So like, there is some element of like, okay, like, here’s a thank you that people are just going to buy. Like, like, here’s the thing is, right? Like most people are going to get that token and full, like full stack Hitler it. Right. And just like, thanks for the airdrop, OpenSea, FU, onto the next thing, blah, blah, blah. So it’s like, what’s the point of even doing it then? Right.

1:00:53And so like, that’s kind of like my thought process is like, if people are just going to give me shit regardless, then all right, cool. Like I won’t do that. And I’ll just incentivize, I’ll incentivize network activity and, and the things that I want people to be doing that will help me grow my business. Cause that’s like what I think like over the next couple of years, especially now with like regulatory clarity is how do you incentivize, how do you use tokens as incentive mechanisms that will help grow your business, which helps grow your valuation, right? Which helps grow how much money you make, right? Right. Or how much money you make to valuation. And so, yeah, so I know I’m in, I know I’m in the minority on that. So I also, I don’t think I did that much trading on OpenSea. I did a lot of more minting and stuff like that.

1:01:42So I’m not expecting a big airdrop at all. And like I said, it’s like, I think if, if I was in OpenSea shoes, I would be like, what’s the, the past is the past.

1:01:55Even if we were to give people money, how much, like, would that really change their sentiment? Like, I don’t know. Because like, no matter how much you give people be like, oh, I spent, you know, I bought $50 million worth of NFTs in 2020 and 2021. And all I got was like a hundred K airdrop. Are you kidding me?

1:02:18Right. So it’s just like, you’re, you’re like, you’re in a losing proposition to begin with. And so it’s like, if that’s the case, then like, why even spend any money at all? Like, I think kind of like, I don’t remember, but I think Luca was kind of talking about this where, you know, Pudgy probably did the biggest airdrop.

1:02:36Probably, uh, maybe Bored Apes probably did a bigger one, but like they did one of the bigger airdrops in terms of like how much money they gave to holders. And that like, that didn’t really do them any, you know, like the token still sold off with everything else. It’s still, you know, people were still selling it for liquidity. People, you know, people still floor it. And like, they’re like, all right, well now, now what are you doing to give me money? Right. And it just becomes like, there’s never anything.

1:03:02So I just think like, as a founder, it’s like, all right, well I will give you the token. If like, I’ll give you, I’ll give you money. If you give me money. Right. Like I’m not in business just to like give away value. Right. Like that nobody, like who, who would work, um, and not earn an income. Like nobody would ever do that. Right. And so, especially when you start a business. So I don’t know, that’s kind of, I know I’m probably like in the deep minority on this. So take that with a grain of salt.

1:03:29Yeah. Well, we do have, uh, I will take it with a grain of salt. We do have a, a late join here. Let me get them pulled up, uh, and things set up here to get our, only an hour late.

1:03:46How you doing? I don’t know if they can hear you. Uh, there we go. Oh my God. Well, welcome brother. Hope you’re well. Um, how are you guys? My fault on that. We got the start times mixed up. How’s everyone doing?

1:04:00Good. How are you? Good, man. Chilling. The market’s wild, huh?

1:04:04I know we were, uh, we were kind of talking about that. I was talking a little bit about, uh, my prop days in, in equity trading. And I was like, man, I wish KBM was on. Cause, uh, I don’t think we’ve ever been on one call together, but I think we like, we DM an okay amount of time, but like, I don’t think we’ve ever been on a call together.

1:04:23Yeah. Yeah. I think you did the wrecked radio once. Right. And that was it. Yeah. Yeah. Other than that, no, but yeah, we, we have the same background, you and I. Yeah. So I don’t know if people know that, but we, uh, we’re prop traders in New York city. Yeah. Good old days. Now we’re on the side.

1:04:38That was kind of like, that was kind of like comp to like meme coin traders, I guess, of the equity world. It was all short term shit. Yeah. Scalping and whatnot. But yeah.

1:04:48Yeah. No, it’s, it’s, it’s kind of funny. Cause I, we were talking about it like yesterday on yesterday’s show of like, I, I always, I always laugh when, you know, you’re, you, you put on a position and you’re like, Bitcoin’s going lower here. And then like, whatever you brought, maybe it goes lower and then you cover it. And then you flip, you flip long and people are like trying to count on you. It’s like, dude, this is literally what trading is. Like you have a position, you have a thesis that could change one second later and you change your position.

1:05:18Like that’s the, that’s the way trading works.

1:05:21Yeah. It’s funny. There was some guys like quote tweeted me, uh, like yesterday after it all popped off, like quote tweeting a short from like two weeks ago, they’re like, you’re fucking wrecked. I was like, ah, yeah. Okay. We’re still all there. But what else have we been talking about fellas?

1:05:35Um, I mean, a little bit of everything. I think the one, the one area that I’ve like, you’ve tweeted a lot about a lot. And we spent, we started the show off talking about this is this new age of like trader, you know, the content creating trader.

1:05:48Now. Um, and then this like unk verse again, broccoli haired Chrome hearts trader that like live streams. And like a lot of these guys are kind of just talking down and being like, Oh yeah. Like we’re, we’re the greatest traders of all time. Um, I’m curious to get your take on, on like the reality check there that I think a lot of people might need.

1:06:07Um, no, I mean, uh, whatever. It’s just like a niche of trading that is happening right now that I guess these kids are being successful in more power to them. I don’t know if I’d really call it trading, but maybe, maybe, uh, maybe that’s the unk in me.

1:06:21It definitely is. I don’t think a lot of like hedge fund guys would call scalping trading either. So it’s like, you know, it’s funny.

1:06:30It’s funny. Yeah. Like, so like, that’s kind of what I’ve been saying is like, listen, how you make money is up to you. Like there’s a billion ways to make money. And so I’m not going to judge people how they make money as long as it’s legal.

1:06:41Right. Like, it’s just like, that’s whatever. That’s your strategy. Um, what I find interesting is how, oops, did we lose him?

1:06:51Uh, I think he just turned his camera off or something. Not sure. We’ll give him a second.

1:07:02Yeah. Technical difficulties here. Technical difficulties.

1:07:07Oh, he dropped. We’ll, we’ll wait a second. He might’ve, uh, had an issue. This is, uh, you know what? This happens in shows.

1:07:15Is it, is this, uh, this is our, our first like, uh, technical difficulties, which is pretty good for, for like how long we’ve been doing this at this point.

1:07:24Two months, I think. Right. A little over two months, a little over two months. Um, uh, um, okay, cool. So let’s see, let’s, what’s happening.

1:07:37What’s happened since we started the show. What’s happened. All right. Let’s, let’s look over Nebius for a second. Uh, can you, can you bring up the chart? All right, cool.

1:07:46Yeah. So it did its secondary or it did it preferred yesterday. You know, if I were to add, you know, I’d be getting long here, use the stop, the lows here, um, as like, you know, a trading position here.

1:08:00But this is like, kind of like shoulder, head, shoulder.

1:08:06You just went TA.

1:08:09This is, uh. Retroactive TA is the best TA.

1:08:12Professional TA. Well, I mean, this was predicting the future, right? So it’s like, you know, some sort of shoulder here, higher lows. You want to see it go higher.

1:08:19Um, ooh, SpaceX. Ooh, maybe it could look interesting for a trade there using the lows from yesterday.

1:08:27Um, ooh, man. Gold’s so strong. All these gold miners.

1:08:34CLF. Popping. Ooh, TAO. There we go.

1:08:37Yeah, finally. Wait, zoom. Scroll out, though.

1:08:40Don’t scroll out.

1:08:42Finally. Dude, no, no, we’re not going to scroll out. You’re up 10% on this trade.

1:08:48Dude, I, uh, I’m long from, like, here.

1:08:55My internet just went out.

1:08:57Yo, your internet just went out? Yeah. That’s what, that’s what you get for spending the entire summer.

1:09:01I was taking pictures of, like, other devices and shit to send to you guys to, like, make it, make sure you believe me.

1:09:07I was like, oh, you’re just going to fucking believe me.

1:09:09He’s like, F these guys.

1:09:13But it’s back. It’s been a big story.

1:09:15Anyway. Okay, so before, before you drop, you know, we were talking about how, like, you know, trader content creation.

1:09:22And, again, I don’t judge people by how they make money.

1:09:25It’s like, whatever your trading style is, your trading style.

1:09:28Yep. Um, what I kind of do have an issue with is, like, then making it look like trading is so easy.

1:09:34Because I’m like, bro, like, trading is a, one, it’s really hard.

1:09:37It’s a grind. And it’s generally boring. Like, you’re literally sitting in front of your screen 95% of the time waiting for something to happen.

1:09:46You know what I mean? And then, like, you pounce. And then, like, when you’re not in front of your screen, you’re still, you’re staring at your phone because you don’t want to miss the next move in, like, whatever it is you were waiting for.

1:09:56And then, like, if you don’t want to miss the next move in, like, whatever it is you were waiting for. Exactly. It’s like 99% downtime. So, I mean, like this whole traders are celebrities things and they keep posting this fucking kimchi kid and he hung out with a rapper once. I’m like, dude, like, I don’t know what this narrative is all about or like why they’re pushing it. They clearly have some kind of motive behind them. Maybe they just want to be like more famous than they are. I mean, they are pretty famous on crypto Twitter and whatnot, a lot of them. They have a crazy distribution network and they all push the same narratives. So, I mean, it’s one way they’re making money.

1:10:23And I think like traders have been hanging out with celebrities for a long time. Most traders like hedge fund guys make a fuck ton of money. They’re obviously rubbing elbows with celebrities. So, uh, kimchi going to dinner with Gunna once is not really like that big of a scoop, but somehow the whole fucking crew thinks it is.

1:10:40So, okay, my theory, this is actually the first time I think I’m talking about publicly. I think it’s an industry plant because I think like when you look at it, right, it’s like, first off, I’m sure you can like, I’m almost certain.

1:10:53You can pay Gunna some amount of money for him to post you on his stories, right?

1:10:57Like I just noticed. Probably fucking $2,000 or something.

1:11:00Yeah. Yeah. Probably like 25K if I had to guess, maybe 50, but like whatever, right? Like you’ll post it. And, um, so that’s one. And then two is like, when you look at it, right? Like it’s almost like it’s in, like, there’s a lot of content that’s being created around kimchi.

1:11:16Now that he’s like this trader celebrity that will push the funnel down to FOMO. Right. And so like, to me, it’s like, yeah, this is like a good trade or celebrity. He could be AI for all I know. He’s only in like still frames.

1:11:29No one’s ever heard of him before. He’s never spoken before. Like what the fuck is going on? They picked the worst guy ever to be a celeb. Someone fucking masked man, still frame guy. 120 pounds, sopping wet. But I don’t know. I guess that, you know, that’s the industry plan idea is actually, it’s so plausible. It’s so plausible.

1:11:53Yeah. I mean, dude, like, I mean, they’re like, I’m sure I haven’t seen like what the traffic looks like to get people onto the app. But I’ve seen a couple of those things. And they’re like, this kid was made $40 million and flies private and you can follow him. So it’s like, it plays right into that. So to me, I don’t know. I don’t discount that that’s probably what’s going on.

1:12:17It’s definitely possible. They’re throwing around a lot of fucking money, right? To try to get this narrative going. And yeah, yeah, I know. Then you see like, there’s only like a handful of laws that have ever made money and XYZ. It’s pretty close to gambling. I know, you know, I know a little bit about that. So shameless eat plug. The RTP on eats better.

1:12:40It probably is, but you’re guaranteed to lose on heat.

1:12:43You are one of my favorite founders of all time because you just, you are the most like, what? Like if somebody talks shit about you and they have no, like the whole thing with the guy buying the account.

1:12:56Oh, that was like, yeah.

1:12:57Interactions of a founder I’ve ever seen.

1:13:00It’s just crazy. I don’t know. I mean, like maybe, maybe there are times I’m like, maybe I need to shut up. I have deleted so many tweets that I would have pushed.

1:13:08I had none previously before being a founder. I’ve been really quiet. I’ve got a little bit more unfiltered lately and maybe I shouldn’t as a founder. I don’t know. It’s like a tough, it’s like a tightrope.

1:13:17It’s a thin line.

1:13:19Very thin line. It’s a really thin line. I walked it with 90 CC. I’m sure Hunter, you walk it with loop where like, sometimes you’re like, ah man, I really want to say this, but not good for business.

1:13:29My drafts folder, if it ever leaked right now, I would have no, like not a single founder of another company in this space.

1:13:35I’m like, if I’m coming after this person, will they ever gamble in their life?

1:13:40Like, I don’t want to like, you know, ruin that. And then, uh, some of them I’m like, they won’t. So I’ll just come after them.

1:13:47Yeah. Their audience is my, and then they hate me, but, um, yeah, it’s definitely a thin line to walk. Um, there are a lot of people, yeah, all these tier lists and bullshit.

1:13:55I mean, it’s just another tangent, but they just keep ranking us like randomly low. And then we’re like, have you ever played the site? Cause we take a lot of pride in the site. Like none of it’s white label.

1:14:04Unlike a lot of the industry, we fucking spent so much money and time building and with devs and none of us are engineers. So it was like a huge grind and uphill battle.

1:14:13And like, we should have been dead a couple of times probably. And we finally got it to a place where we’re doing unique shit and, you know, custom stuff and everything’s building house.

1:14:21So every time somebody talks shit, I’m like, I’m, I am a little offended. I do take it personally because I’m like what some people think.

1:14:29Like, I’m not just like KOL-ing this. Like I’m literally like in the trenches all day. I’m head of product. Um, um, um, literally on calls with engineers all day long. Uh, so yeah, it’s.

1:14:39You’re not making, you’re not just putting your face into everything.

1:14:42Yeah, exactly. I think I’ve said that. I’m like, buddy, that’s what gets me tilted too. They like the trading. I kept saying that. I’m like, bro, I don’t even know. Not only do I, am I the biggest equity stake in the whole fucking company? I am in the trenches hard as fuck. So yeah, it’s not just my face.

1:14:57Dude, I also, I want to give you props for that too, because when I had 90 CC, I couldn’t, I couldn’t trade and do 90 CC.

1:15:05Well, I haven’t been trading really at all. That’s what sucks. My trading suffered badly last year when I was like, uh, you know, all in on this and it’s getting better now because we’ve hired enough people to take some easier jobs that I was doing. But yeah, it’s, it’s impossible balance. Like I’m sure as you’re about to say, it’s tough, right?

1:15:23Yeah. I mean, like, I think we got three founders on here. We all know that. Right. So yeah. I, I, like I said this morning, gee, I was like, I missed so much. I left so much profit on the, on the table by not actively just trading. Like I think it would have been, I think it would have been good for the rest of the year. Had I not been in like founder mode on 12 hours of calls yesterday.

1:15:42Yeah. Right. Now I’m like, Jesus, trading is like so fucking good. Like, man, maybe I should just be a trader.

1:15:48I’m kidding. We’ll go back, back to being a plumber, you know?

1:15:51Yeah, I should be plumbing.

1:15:54Honestly, these new point kids, a lot of them should fucking pivot to plumbing.

1:15:59I’ll be super high paying and can’t get AI’d out. So honestly, plumber should be what you aspire to be. But a lot of them, I don’t think they can handle getting in crawl spaces and getting their hands dirty.

1:16:09That’s a new, that’s a new course. The new course flow is meme coin shader to plumber. How I became a financially.

1:16:16You will be way richer as a plumber. My meme coin trading friend. I guarantee that, but you will have a harder life in Cal’s hands.

1:16:27I think I read, I think I read or read or saw, was it Cupsie or Orangey? Like they were a gas station attendant before they started meme coin trading like a couple of years ago.

1:16:37I’m like, wow. Come up. Yeah. I mean, that’s what, I mean, a lot of these kids, the allure is, right?

1:16:42You can kind of just waltz in and hopefully get lucky and, you know, you make a name for yourself.

1:16:48Of course you can keep dumping on your followers and whatnot. And it’s like a vertical integration.

1:16:52Right. I mean, I think that’s like, at least for me, I’d love to know, how did you get into trading?

1:16:59Because like, for me, like that, yeah, like I was always like interested in the market since I was a little kid.

1:17:05And when I figured, like I had like good long-term ideas and like, well, I need to figure out how to make money in the short term.

1:17:10And like, I can figure this trading thing out. Like, and then like, I went, I put up money in a prop firm and never looked back.

1:17:17Yeah. I mean, for me, um, in college, I was just kind of like one of those finance econ bros, finance econ frat bros at Penn State, uh, where the, what was it? Pablo pledged Kabar, but just having the pledges do fucking bags of blow.

1:17:35Uh, anyway, yeah, I wasn’t involved in that sadly, but, um, I was there as like a, just another frat bro kind of guy, like, uh, and then did some interviews at prop firms, investment banks, all that stuff.

1:17:44And I got the job at, um, my old prop firm at straight out of college. So I just came right out of college, worked with a prop firm, didn’t put up any money.

1:17:53They bankroll you, you know, how it works. Like they give you like, you know, a hundred K BP and you just kind of have to like prove yourself at the smallest scale.

1:18:00And then they level you up, they level you up. And, you know, a lot of people get cut, some people make it and then just kind of scales from there.

1:18:08And then from there, I mean, I was like a top 10 trader, probably like three years in and a couple more, you know, successful years, moved to a different firm, um, traded successfully there.

1:18:21COVID obviously was a shit ton of money and volatility for prop just as well as, uh, crypto trading crypto since 2017.

1:18:282019. So fairly early, but, um, yeah, I mean, just always been looking at the markets and mostly short-term scalper trader though.

1:18:38Um, I don’t really have any long-term gains.

1:18:42So it’s been a bad. What, uh, what year did you start, what year did you start, uh, trading prop?

1:18:462009. So I’ve been in the game a while.

1:18:48All right, cool. I mean, when did you start? I started 2007. I literally started, uh, a month before Countrywide went under.

1:18:57Yeah. So it was like August, 2007.

1:19:00My daughter’s walking in here. One second.

1:19:10I think you’re cut off. One second. Sorry, fellas. There you go. We’ll be out there in a minute.

1:19:14Let’s zoom in a little bit. Sorry, daughter came in. Yeah, no worries. Yeah, no, you started right before the craziest time to be a prop trader, especially because, you know, systems weren’t as advanced.

1:19:26It wasn’t advanced back then either.

1:19:27So there were some crazy difficulties going on, right?

1:19:30In 2008. Yeah, there, it was in 2007, 2008.

1:19:33Like, I’ll never, my, one of my favorite stories from, like, that period, um, was when, uh, when Bear, so I was short a ton of Bear.

1:19:42And then, uh, I remember Bear, it was obviously trending lower.

1:19:45I think I shorted around, like, 100, 110.

1:19:47And it was trading at $50.

1:19:49And I remember the guy in charge of the prop firm, I sat next to him at the time, uh, one of the partners.

1:19:53And he’s like, you should cover your Bear here. And I’m like, no, no, this thing’s going to zero.

1:19:57And he’s like, no, no, no, like you should. So I ended up, he convinced me to cover half. And then the next day is when JP Morgan announced the, they were going to buy it out.

1:20:06But like it initially popped, like there went from like $50 to like $68. And then everybody realized, no, they were buying it for like $2. And then it was like went lower, like all day.

1:20:18But then like, it went immediately lower, sorry. But Lehman was just like getting sold, like nonstop for the entire day.

1:20:28Like you were like catching points on Lehman, like you short like 27, like 30 seconds later, you’re covering 26. Then you short below, like it was just like craziness.

1:20:38And I was trading such small size because I was like still like generally a beginner, right? Like to your point is like, you get like a small amount of buying power.

1:20:46And then as they become accustomed, as you make money and they’re accustomed with your risk management, that gets bigger and bigger, right?

1:20:52And so, but yeah, it was, it was, it was craziness. But then Vol died down, like right after Lehman went under and I ended up moving prop firms because like just like that scalp style trading stopped working for me.

1:21:04Yeah. I mean, that must’ve been insane. I would love to trade stuff like that. I mean, those, those days are sort of gone. Everything’s a little more efficient with their selling.

1:21:13Like they used to just like full stack Hitler, for lack of a better term, like their position in the equity market.

1:21:19They would just nuke it like five points and it would just go right back up. So if you’re sitting there at your desk with the right filters, just scoop as much as you can and, you know, print five points instantly on like max size.

1:21:29That was easy mode for sure. And those spots.

1:21:32But then like, even, even then, right. Like talking to guys that were around before that, like that caught like 99 in 2000, that was like even easier mode. Cause to your point, there were still people trading like on the floor and then they had like the NASDAQ system when it was like just starting.

1:21:50And like the spreads were like a quarter wide or 50 cents wide. So you can buy something at like 26 and a penny and sell it at 2649 before like the New York stock exchange would fill.

1:22:03And like they were just printing cash. It was insane.

1:22:07There’s been so many funny free money spots like that. It’s like natural gas used to come out at what, 1030 at, at, um, on Thursdays.

1:22:14You just sandwich orders on both sides of the book and just get printed and then, you know, scalp a point.

1:22:19I mean, yeah, there were good times in the video game version of the market when it was still finding itself before James street and Citadel and everyone came in and, uh, raped the fun parts.

1:22:30And like, but yeah, I feel like crypto for the most part, like the easy money is like mostly like it’s efficient market.

1:22:39Yeah. It’s sophisticated now too. It’s like just as bad as equity market.

1:22:43Like if you, if you went in like market by like one, let’s say a million dollars with the Bitcoin on a perp right now, like it’ll, it’ll just fuck, fuck with your position on a short-term level.

1:22:51Yeah. Just like equities. Um, yeah, it’s, it’s not easy anymore. It used to be super easy though.

1:22:57Crypto was like fucking a joke trading on BitMEX. Those perps was amazing, especially coming from somebody with a prop background.

1:23:04I was like, Jesus Christ, this is like a joke. This is like Candyland. It’s like child’s play.

1:23:09Um, they would look at their positions with $10 million like offers and just stick them low and just stack $10 million offers low over and over and over.

1:23:17You’d be like, just wait for them to start like decrementing and just take them out and just scalp another fucking bounce.

1:23:22It was like, those are the good times of trading video game life. Um, that was the easy mode, but yeah.

1:23:28Do you see, do you see any areas within training right now that maybe they’re not easy, but you, you think like there’s like more opportunity than other areas?

1:23:37Uh, I’m curious.

1:23:39Um, not really. I mean, NFTs are obviously easy too, cause there was such a big spread.

1:23:44It’s kind of like not dissimilar to what you might have been talking about trading fractions.

1:23:49Um, NFTs were so wide and people were so unsophisticated that it was easy to make moves there.

1:23:54Um, right now, no, I mean, honestly, I don’t really touch meme coin stuff like, uh, on that granular level.

1:24:01Cause it takes, you have to be super dialed in.

1:24:03And I, I mean, I feel like you, the only people who would succeed are people who like make call outs, but I don’t know, maybe that’s easy mode.

1:24:10Like where you’re just like, Hey, I’m getting along this and a bunch of people follow you and you like sell to them.

1:24:15That’s a bummer. But well, that’s, so it’s kind of funny.

1:24:19Cause like I tell people like, bro, if you were on my trading desk and you called something out and sold it by the time I bought it, you would like, you’d be thrown out of the room.

1:24:28You don’t like, are you kidding me?

1:24:31Like you’re using me as exit liquid, but like, I feel like in crypto people are like, yeah, man, it’s just a game.

1:24:36I’m like, no, it’s kind of like devolved into that, like evolved into that where it used to be frowned upon, but now it’s just, it’s just the fucking game.

1:24:43I mean, like, I guess that’s it.

1:24:45Game is game. You got to know who you call your following. Is it some guy who dumps insulin or some guy who means it?

1:24:51Um, and you’re trying to play hot potato.

1:24:53I don’t know. I mean, I mean, it’s not even just, they’ll dump on you.

1:24:57They’ll dump on you and like tag you in a tweet and be like, thanks for the exit liquid.

1:25:02Oh my God. That’s yeah. So I think that’s fun and easy for some people.

1:25:07Yeah. But you have to, you have to watch that, watch out, um, as you’re walking down the street.

1:25:11Right. Cause that, that’s the type of shit that’ll get you stabbed, you know?

1:25:14Yeah. And I mean, maybe they’ll regulate these markets someday and some people get in trouble if they did it on a big scale.

1:25:20One would assume, but maybe they won’t.

1:25:22I don’t know. I mean, maybe they won’t. Cause I mean, Trump does that too. So like maybe when he’s out of office, like they’re making, making 150 mil.

1:25:31It’s, it’s funny that, um, like you mentioned that.

1:25:34Cause like, I think, uh, I saw a trader man, trader main talking about this of how I didn’t know this, but I don’t, do you remember Ian Bellina?

1:25:41Yeah. Like the 2017 ICO days.

1:25:44But like, I remember him as the guy that was always posting his screenshots on Instagram of like, I’ve like, I’ve done all these ICOs and blah, blah, blah.

1:25:52But apparently there was some legal action taken against him, like seven years after the fact, like a while after.

1:25:58So maybe, maybe there’s something coming.

1:26:01I don’t know. It’s probably, but to your point, it probably happens when.

1:26:04Different administration, right? I mean, yeah. Baron made 150 mil. I mean, fucking who knows who was loading up hype before that last call out.

1:26:12Yeah, sure. Dude, that one guy. I’m hearing rumors. He’s got to run it back, too.

1:26:16Yeah, I saw that guy smirk and he’s like, that was crazy.

1:26:22That whole press conference, I was just sitting there.

1:26:25I’m like, crime is back, baby. Like, here it comes. Like, he never left.

1:26:29Guy made more in one meme coin trade than his entire goddamn 70-year-old career.

1:26:35So, I think crime has been here since then.

1:26:38I mean, whatever. I don’t know.

1:26:40I don’t want nothing to be upset about, I guess.

1:26:43I mean, this has to be good for you in this, like, meta where, and not just crypto.

1:26:47Yeah, yeah, for sure. But, like, everything seems to be going gamble, gamble, gamble, gamble, stuff.

1:26:52Like, it’s just more speculation.

1:26:55Yeah, yeah. Everyone’s open to just, like, gambling is how you have to make it, all that narrative.

1:27:00I mean, like, I don’t think those narratives are, like, true.

1:27:01I don’t want to, like, say that’s true. But I know it is, like, the narrative that you have to take extreme risks to make it, to jump class systems, or whatever you want to call it, get out of poverty by taking extreme risks. I mean, you could just become a plumber, like I fucking said, and probably make it five and a year.

1:27:17I mean, plumber, electrician, right?

1:27:19It’s like $300 a year or something. Oh, those jobs are going to pay. Like, if you’re a good one and you start a business, you can make millions.

1:27:24It’s easy. Yeah. No one wants to hear that. They want to pull up in your chair and just print some money by getting it out of your keyboard, as they call it. It’ll be cool when people start making, like, plumbing edits and, you know, going to, like, 11 and popping bottles.

1:27:39I’ve seen some bills on Instagram somehow, actually.

1:27:42That’s some fucking New York plumbers who have some good accounts.

1:27:45I don’t know. Weird tangent.

1:27:47Weird tangent we’re going on here. But, yeah, I don’t know.

1:27:51What was the first question? I kind of got lost. No, it’s just, like, in this, like, world of, like, hyper-speculation.

1:27:56Like, for Yeet, like, you have more people coming in.

1:27:59Like, I’m curious how you guys are positioning there.

1:28:04I mean, yeah, I guess it’s good for us.

1:28:07For Yeet itself, it’s, like, crypto has been so, like, not volatile and dead.

1:28:12And it’s, like, you kind of second-guess, like, the on-ramps to the casino.

1:28:16Like, will people even be buying crypto or is it just a pool of people who are sitting here that are just going to be passing it around?

1:28:22So, I guess stable coins are obviously not going anywhere.

1:28:26People continue to use those. But, yeah, I mean, hyper-gamification is obviously good for us on all levels.

1:28:32We’ll continue to make, like, cool unique games now that we’ve got the platform on a spot where we can do unique things.

1:28:39We’ve got a lot of stuff planned to gamify the site, actually.

1:28:42So, all good for us, for sure.

1:28:45What’s been the, like, the craziest moment of running a casino?

1:28:49I’ve never talked to somebody who, like, runs a casino, basically.

1:28:52What’s been the most expected moment of launching a casino?

1:28:56Unexpected or expected? Unexpected. Unexpected.

1:29:01I don’t know. I mean, like, it’s like any business, really, I’m sure, where you just, like, problems arise and fires come up and you have to put them out.

1:29:10And our fires are just, like, maybe somebody’s trying to exploit a slot.

1:29:14But it’s, like, our team, our ops team, is a lot of X traders and pattern recognition. And you’re just, like, this is just us and myself and Ben Lamb and other guys have a lot of experience gambling, so we’re just, we just are more equipped than other teams that just kind of, like, walk in here in the right place, right time.

1:29:31We, like, know patterns and things that shouldn’t be happening and, you know, are possible or aren’t possible. Other people maybe don’t. Like, same with Sharp Sports Betting.

1:29:40I don’t think, like, it’s very easy to take us out on that level.

1:29:44Not trying to, not trying to get anyone to try.

1:29:46But you hear, like, like, Rollbet lost, like, $100 million.

1:29:49And Tony Bloom, like, fucking, I know of another casino recently who just lost probably had a whole bankroll to a big Turkish guy, Aldo.

1:29:59Yeah, I don’t know. There’s a lot of landmines, but we’re well-equipped to handle those. So that’s been a fun part of running it. I mean, obviously, like, we’ll go ahead.

1:30:10You’re like the modern-day Ace Rothstein.

1:30:14Yeah. Imagine, I wish.

1:30:19That was a casino reference.

1:30:20Yeah, yeah, yeah. For anyone too young, unfortunately.

1:30:25But yeah, I don’t know, man. It’s like, what’s unexpected? It’s hard to say.

1:30:28I mean, everything’s, like, sort of predictable because you have the math.

1:30:31So, I mean, obviously, there’s been some massive wins, and you question, like, if it’s on our custom game, you question our custom game mechanics or whatever.

1:30:39But our devs are so good that we really trust everything we do.

1:30:44I think the unexpected part is just how hard running a business really is.

1:30:47Like, I thought I was just going to walk in, make some fucking casino, and get rich, and I haven’t made any money.

1:30:54And it’s been two years, and it’s not easy, and it’s all day long.

1:30:57So, it’s not that easy to make businesses.

1:31:02Yeah, no, it’s funny you say that because, like, you guys can both attest to this.

1:31:06I experienced the same thing with 90s.

1:31:08It’s, like, with what I experienced is, like, there’s always something, everything’s always hard, right?

1:31:15Like, trading is hard. Running a business is hard. They’re just hard in different ways. And you just kind of have to try to find the thing that, like, makes the most sense for you, right?

1:31:24That you’re, like, that you feel like you can tackle.

1:31:26But, like, I can’t tell you how many times I would wake up, and they’d be like, hey, like, there’s, like, 7 a.m.

1:31:32Before I even drink my cup of coffee, they’re like, oh, there’s an issue with blah, blah, blah.

1:31:36And it’s, like, getting punched in the face.

1:31:37And you’re like, wow, I didn’t expect I’d have to deal with this today.

1:31:41But now this is what, like, my number one priority is, right?

1:31:45Yeah. It’s a never-ending list of stuff like that, which is fun, too.

1:31:47As, like, a trader, it was, like, more of a lone wolf lifestyle that I was leading.

1:31:52Yeah. It’s, like, I didn’t, like, you trade with, like, other guys you trust on a headset and prop at least.

1:31:57So it’s, like, four or five of us.

1:31:59But it’s not, like, I’m not, like, following people’s calls ever, like, super independent in that regard.

1:32:03So there’s definitely more lone wolf.

1:32:05And then when you come to work in a business, like, managing people, being on teams, having people rely on you, definitely, like, a cool vibe switch.

1:32:15It’s been a lot of fun. Yeah. I mean, like, our team’s, like, almost 60 people now.

1:32:19So it’s definitely graduated to a pretty big level.

1:32:22So, yeah, it’s a lot of people in the engine room here.

1:32:26Well, it’s also not even just, like, the internal stuff.

1:32:29Like, we feel this, like, the FOMO versus pump versus, you know, Axiom and Terminal.

1:32:35Kind of war that’s going on.

1:32:37Mostly pump versus FOMO right now.

1:32:39Like, you are, you’re going up against these huge name casinos that have bankrolls that are, I mean, they must be hundreds of millions of dollars.

1:32:47And they’re spending insane marketing dollars.

1:32:50I’m sure there’s smear campaigns.

1:32:53And, like, not everybody’s playing nice, right?

1:32:55Like, you are in cutthroat industry.

1:32:59Yeah, no, that’s it. It is hard to go against these incumbents and behemoths of companies.

1:33:04They do a lot of things.

1:33:06And it’s hard to compute them. We kind of, like, luckily our team’s, like, super, I think, sharp.

1:33:11And we kind of look at it and think about, you know, where we can succeed versus them.

1:33:15Like, we’re never going to fight RainBet buying marketing and Instagram and, like, all that shit.

1:33:20Like, that’s where they run it. Like, we’re never going to be XYZ on bonusing because they can overbonus people.

1:33:27So, you know, we’re never going to be, like, stake on custom slot providers and all the shit they do well.

1:33:32And, you know, just being the biggest name and having the best influencers.

1:33:35So, like, what can we do the best that we can play money ball with?

1:33:39Like, we don’t have, like, the biggest bankroll. We did have financing rounds.

1:33:43And we’re completely fine. And we’re profitable.

1:33:46But we can’t take, like, massive limits.

1:33:48There’s other casinos that pop up that take huge limits.

1:33:50They get smoked with some variance and they’re gone.

1:33:52Like, we never do stuff like that.

1:33:54We kind of just, like, play our money ball style and think we’ll auto win eventually once we just, like, survive.

1:34:02So, with that being said, like, we’re, like, what could we be best at?

1:34:05Right now it’s, like, more community-based stuff.

1:34:07So, if we create a gambling community where people, like, feel comfortable coming to the site and make friends and show up and chat.

1:34:13Like, they talk to me, they talk to Ben, they talk to Michael.

1:34:17And we’re always accessible and we’ll listen to everyone.

1:34:20That’s kind of, like, the route we’re going. Like, our retention on VIPs is, like, from our data, it’s, like, the highest in the industry.

1:34:27Now, in the lower level, it’s not. We’re trying to fix that. We’re making, like, lower-level efforts for retention and help these people and make that community aspect trickle down like we want.

1:34:36We don’t want it just to be, like, siloed to, you know, the people with a ton of money.

1:34:40But, yeah, and I think that I don’t want to, like, give away too much of the roadmap, but we’re doing a lot of stuff with gamification on the community side that we think we can leverage versus these behemoths that they don’t have.

1:34:52A lot of it comes back to a marriage between video games and gambling and the systems that made, you know, MMOs really popular.

1:35:00Because I used to play, like, World of Warcraft back in the day when I was a kid for, like, when I was sick.

1:35:04Like, I was in the hospital for a while, so I played nonstop in EverQuest as well.

1:35:10So I have, like, these visions of taking stuff like that and marrying it to the casino side.

1:35:15Whether you want to say that’s, like, you know, marrying two addictions and trying to make people more addicted.

1:35:21That’s kind of where it’s at. But it creates a community aspect.

1:35:23So we want to create that vibe where it’s just, like, a fun community to come back to.

1:35:28That’s our edge. You can show up. You’ll have a good time. You’re not going to come to the chat and people are just, like, complaining and begging and all pissed off and upset.

1:35:38Like, people are pretty, like, positive in our chat.

1:35:41Like, yeah, it’s gambling. Like, if you sign up on Heat, you will lose over time.

1:35:45Like, there’s no lying there.

1:35:47There’s an edge to the game. So obviously, gambling is, like, you’re trying to capture variance in a near term and have a good time.

1:35:52Like, yeah, you can capture variance and win, but you will lose if you keep playing.

1:35:55I don’t think anyone should, like, you know, not recognize that.

1:35:58But we want to make it, like, a fun environment to do that.

1:36:01But battling the behemoths on streamers and all this shit, it’s just not possible.

1:36:04Like, there’s really, I think, like, streamers especially are super low value.

1:36:09They’re overpaid by these, like, stakes of the world who can overpay and capture market share that way.

1:36:14So we have to find other backdoors to capture market share.

1:36:16And that’s what we’re going to continue to do.

1:36:18Just a Moneyball style.

1:36:20Backdoors, creative things. So that’s why we don’t really do a lot of the normal route stuff outside of a few people.

1:36:26But, yeah. I don’t know. I kind of rambled there. But, yeah. No, no. I mean, I think it’s super interesting.

1:36:31I also find it fascinating that what we’re kind of seeing the meta in the consumer trading app space, it’s all social.

1:36:38If you’re not doing social and community-based stuff, like, we launched squads.

1:36:42We had FOMO come out with clans.

1:36:45I think Pump’s going to come out with parties.

1:36:47Like, that seems to be more of a speculation space.

1:36:51It’s like, hey, community people together.

1:36:53Like, that’s the new do it or die.

1:36:56Yeah. I think you have to do that. As everyone becomes more disconnected from, like, real reality, they want to be connected in the virtual reality space.

1:37:03And, you know, casino, online casinos are a part of that for sure.

1:37:06So I think that’s like... Did someone say metaverse? I was about to say metaverse coming to yeet.

1:37:12I mean, hey. It’s definitely on the idea board.

1:37:16I don’t think it ever made it past that to the roadmap.

1:37:18But, like... I got a bunch of Decentralands that I can show you.

1:37:21I think your family was on there.

1:37:24It’s not on the roadmap yet, though.

1:37:25We’ll see. Maybe someday. That would be pretty fucking cool.

1:37:29I remember in 2021, I was an investor in Decentraland Games, and it was a casino in Decentraland.

1:37:40Idea was great. Yeah. Before that time. There’s something there. It’s just, like, not ready yet, I guess.

1:37:46It’s not ready yet. There will be something there someday. Absolutely.

1:37:49So maybe we’ll be able to transition right into it with all the other shit we have on the roadmap.

1:37:54But, yeah, the social aspect of all this stuff is definitely necessary if you want to succeed.

1:38:00For sure.

1:38:02Do you view that as, like, this, like, social, that it gets deeper and deeper, more people are going...

1:38:12Like, it’s just, like, the content side of this just becomes, like, a real true career?

1:38:18Like, this is what we started the show with, was just saying everybody’s going to be streaming, like, trading.

1:38:23Everybody’s going to be trying to make a name for themselves.

1:38:26Everybody’s going to be looking at a leaderboard.

1:38:27And it doesn’t matter what platform you’re on.

1:38:30It’s, like, how much... Who’s, like, the biggest winning gambler?

1:38:34Like, we’ve seen this with, like...

1:38:36Yeah. Like, a lot of, like, casino gambling content has blown up over the last two years.

1:38:43Yeah.

1:38:45I don’t know. I just feel like that’s the biggest part now.

1:38:48Yeah, I mean, it’s a career, but I think that’s kind of, like, streaming and content creating for gambling, especially, is that, like, a pivot point where it’s, like, no one believes half of it.

1:38:56A lot of it’s, like, bullshit and fake.

1:38:57A lot of the characters that are at the top are, I don’t know, unlikable or just, like, old and saturated.

1:39:04And I think the market itself on streaming is super saturated for gambling, and that’s why we don’t invest a lot of money in it.

1:39:10Because I think these people are stupid, myself.

1:39:13A lot of them. I don’t want to say this out loud. I shouldn’t be hearing this.

1:39:16I’m going to fucking give on the site.

1:39:18But, yeah, I mean, like, we don’t think there’s a lot of value there, is what I should say.

1:39:22So, I don’t think it is a good career path to be, like, a streamer for most people.

1:39:26If you have, like, an it factor and, you know, you’re gambling your own money or something like that, or who knows?

1:39:32Like, there’s definitely people who could do it and be successful.

1:39:36But, like, I don’t see it as, like, you know, up-and-coming new thing.

1:39:40I think it’s super saturated for gambling already.

1:39:42Like, that ship has sailed. Those guys are already overpaid by, you know, hundreds of millions for, like, Trainwreck and all these dudes.

1:39:51Yeah, I don’t know. And as for trading, like, being a trading streamer, like G-Money and I said in the beginning, trading is super boring.

1:39:56So, I don’t know what the hell people are streaming.

1:40:00Like, honestly, like, I think somebody was like, oh, you should stream yourselves trading. I’m like, you wouldn’t be like sitting there, like browsing, like the internet.

1:40:11It’s just gonna be, yeah, you might as well just be fucking Truman Show. I mean, like, there’s an opportunity for, like, yeah, me and you to just be Truman Show. You just fucking watch us all day. Maybe get one clip a day, one clip a week.

1:40:22But, um, yeah, it’s like, uh, I don’t know. Yeah, you’re gonna need some good clippers. Maybe then.

1:40:29Well, I mean, I guess like, I mean, so like, like TJR, right, he posted this thing about, uh, over the weekend of how, you know, he was pissed off because he had to wait in the airport for a couple hours instead of flying private.

1:40:43It’s like, to your point is like, part of me is like, this is ridiculous. And then the second, my second thought right after that is, yeah, dude, he’s like farming streams here, right?

1:40:53Yeah. He’s like, like, farming with these kind of comments. I’m trying to figure out my camera situation here. It’s not great. Um, yeah, I don’t know. I mean, like, it’s another one of those guys that I just, I don’t want to say anything bad or negative about people, but I don’t know. Is he a good trader? I’m not sure.

1:41:10Yeah. No idea. He’s a great content creator. I’ll tell you. Exactly. Exactly. He sells courses, good content creator. Who the fuck knows? But like, there’s a lot of these kinds of guys who are like kind of ambiguous, like what their trading skills are and their background. Um, so I don’t know. They’re good content creators for sure. And they have great distribution and they do super well and they make a lot of money. So is what it is. I don’t know. The dream they’re selling is kind of like, I don’t really love it, but I mean, I also own a casino, so I can’t, can’t be throwing stones.

1:41:38So that’s what it is. Let’s do what you got to do. Do what you got to do to escape the permanent underclass. Yeah, there you go. Exactly, bro. Um, yeah, exactly. No, I mean, it’s all, it’s all AI fueled, right? Like, uh, before AI takes all your jobs, are you, what’s your take on the AI cycle?

1:41:58I tried to get in and then I fumbled. I was talking to G a while ago. Um, and then, yeah, I don’t know, dude, I have not, I feel like I’m an outsider right now. I have not taken advantage of it well enough. I mean, like, are you still, are you still using it heavily or what?

1:42:14Yeah, I still do. I, I, I’d say I use it way less. Um, I have like one strategy that I run with it for equities. Um, just the strategy that like, I wouldn’t say it’s like great. It’s up, but it’s not like, I don’t know if it’s necessarily scalable.

1:42:31And I don’t know if it’s, um, if it’s worth like, cause it’s like, I’m also not a quant. Right. And so it’s like, I I’ve also like dabbled with building a system around the way I used to trade. Cause I used to trade like around like, uh, research and like getting covered by, by all the banks on the street and then coming up with my, my thesis for the day based on that. But it’s like, I got to set up all those like lines again and stuff like that.

1:42:56And just like, I’m like, and you know, this, if you’re not going to like my issue with trading and pushing it as like, almost like a lifestyle type of thing is like, if you’re not committed to it, a hundred percent, you’re going to lose money. You know, it’s a very hard business. And so it’s like, you have to like, even like with a lot, a lot of times these news things, like, you know, when breaking news happens and I catch, I catch something like an hour later, it’s like, yeah, man, like as, as a day trader, as a scalper, like you need to catch that the second it happens.

1:43:24Oh yeah. You need to be looking at Bloomberg, like hot and I hot and fucking be there ready to go. Um, so it’s either like, to me, the way I view it is, is like all or nothing. And it’s like, if I, if you’re going to, if I’m going to half asset, yeah, I can put on longer term trades. I can have like these swing trade DCs where if I’m, if I get into something within like three or 4%, is it the end of the world? No. Right. Maybe I obviously take on a little more risk, but like, it’s not where I’m like taking a highly levered move to catch like, you know, 3%, right. Which is what, you know, I would do at a profter. Yeah. So, um, yeah, it’s there. I utilize it. I can honestly say that whenever these things are down, my productivity level goes down because I just use it for like, like almost pretty much everything at this point.

1:44:09Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. I need to get deeper in the trenches with it, but just like kind of been focused on other things, I guess. But yeah.

1:44:17Yeah. I mean, listen, it’s, it’s tough when you run a business, especially when you have like an organization of people.

1:44:22Exactly. And 24 seven over here, always something going wrong or somebody trying to take us off in some way.

1:44:28But yeah, I mean, I feel like at this point I just need automated trading, uh, of some sort. Like I don’t, I’ve, I’ve left easily millions of dollars on the table.

1:44:41Yeah. Mantos squared by the grid bots. He uses those. I don’t know.

1:44:45Have you, have you looked into like grid bots at all? Have you, I mean, he posted that tweet and I was like, that is insane that how much money he’s printing off of that.

1:44:53Just, is it like, yeah, God, it’s like why it’s like wide band market making, right? Isn’t that kind of what it is?

1:44:58Yeah, exactly. Kind of. I mean, it’s not, I mean, like he’s not doing enough size for it to be like that, but it’s exactly what it is. It’s just like wide band, like market making trading. Exactly. Um, so I mean, it works really well in the market just stuck in a range. Like it had been you print money, obviously. Um, so yeah, I don’t know.

1:45:15It’s a, he says he’s doing well and he swears by it like as a, as like a part of his portfolio just to like automate that. Um, so maybe there’s something there for the AI trading stuff. I don’t know. I have a hard time like trusting AI trading. Just like, like you said, I’m not a quant either.

1:45:29So it’s like, I don’t know really what the hell I’m doing, uh, to be automating some shit. Like, um, I’m more of the, yeah, many rungs below a quant, sadly.

1:45:39Yeah. I told G money this the other week, loot got invited into a quant firm that we’re working with. And, uh, I, I was joking with like all these people that think that they can outsmart KOLs and, you know, front run KOLs on like the meme coin space. Um, and like think they could be smarter.

1:45:58They don’t realize like behind every token, every single block, there’s a quant firm in Brooklyn sitting there with, you know, 12 of like the smartest motherfuckers you will ever meet.

1:46:10Right. And they’re literally thinking, how can we make half a cent on, you know, this trade house? Like, and you just have sharks that are printing on a daily basis, a couple million dollars across every chain and extracting. Um, and they’re not actually clicking it. It’s just automated. And that’s who you’re like actually going up against that. You don’t know. And they weren’t here previous cycles, or at least to the sophisticated degree that they are now.

1:46:34This is, um, to, to that point. And I’m, I’m going to show NFTs. I think there’s going to be an NFT bull run coming, but I remember, I forgot who it was, but somebody said this during the NFT cycle of like, you guys are trading against like SBF and three AC in the order books when like, you could just be trading like JPEGs and not have to deal with like these guys trying to clip you off. Right. And it’s just kind of like all, all the sharks are in the most liquid markets. Obviously there were people and market makers that came to NFTs.

1:47:02And, you know, you know, Pac-Man that, you know, really put that nail in the coffin. But like, you know, it’s just like the, the markets will be inefficient until these guys see the money to be made. Right.

1:47:14Yeah, exactly. Is there an NFT bull run coming then?

1:47:19I think so. I, I, like, I think I’ve seen some, have you, uh, looked at FWA?

1:47:25No. It’s basically an on-chain gotcha.

1:47:28Okay. I’ll take a look at it.

1:47:30Um, and like, I, I think that’s really interesting.

1:47:33I, I thought to me, the very, the most interesting primitive, uh, on it is the fact that like, you can deposit at like into the prize pool.

1:47:42So you can earn yield on that prize pool.

1:47:45So like you’re the house, um, which like all the other ones, like just never had that option.

1:47:50And so people are starting to build on top of it already.

1:47:52It’s got like a bunch of fees that it’s generating and buying back the token.

1:47:56And it’s only 20 million FDV.

1:47:58So I think it’s, it is very for what it could do.

1:48:01It makes sense for a KBM to be the guy to do the Apple pay abstract for, for it.

1:48:07Cause nobody’s built like a consumer grade app that just lets you do Apple pay deposit and like spin for this stuff, which everybody has kind of said in the world of like, gotcha.

1:48:18Uh, there is no open source poly market style.

1:48:23Anybody can build on it. Anybody can deposit. Anybody can be the house.

1:48:26Um, and you know, people want to spin for Pokemon cards just as much as they want to spin for, you know, a board ape.

1:48:34If they just know that like they could hit the lottery on one of these hits.

1:48:37Yeah. Yeah. We thought about adding to the casino a couple of times now, maybe a little down the line, but I don’t know what these on-chain ones.

1:48:44It’s like, they never, they always like sound like great ideas.

1:48:47Same with the on-chain, on-chain casinos.

1:48:49And then like, I don’t know why none of them really scale or get liquidity.

1:48:53I mean, there are reasons why, obviously, but, um, yeah, it’s weird.

1:48:57Well, aren’t, I mean, aren’t some of them, I think I know what, what on-chain casino you’re talking about, but like, aren’t some of them just like exit scams for the founders?

1:49:03Well, no, no, I think like, even like Look.io, like how they stopped, they, they shut it down.

1:49:09Like if they had more liquidity and were getting more players, they would have stayed around.

1:49:13Obviously they, they were not playing money ball.

1:49:15They were paying people $500,000 to shill.

1:49:18So step one, you knew they were going to flop, um, unless they created some crazy escape velocity based off those people, but didn’t happen clearly, obviously.

1:49:27Um, but yeah, I don’t know.

1:49:29I think on-chain casinos just have a hard time because like, uh, there’s just like a lot of things like that you can do if you’re centralized, um, that are just better, like rewards wise and retention wise and, you know, speed probably as well.

1:49:42But, um, I don’t know, maybe there will be good on-chain ones, I’m sure at some point, I know shuffles creating one, so we’ll see how they do with that.

1:49:50Um, but yeah, I know it’s gotcha thing sounds cool though.

1:49:53I think that’s easy to do on-chain for sure.

1:49:55Um, and those are super fun.

1:49:57I got addicted to the card gotchas for a bit there.

1:50:01I still have a lot of money. Nice collection. I mean, there’s a Pokemon on there.

1:50:08I think it’s the highest, the second highest prize in the vault after a hoodie bump.

1:50:12So if you want to put some spins in.

1:50:15I might have to.

1:50:17KBM returning to NFTs.

1:50:192026 is going to be the weirdest year of all time.

1:50:22There you go.

1:50:26I still can’t believe, I remember when your Penguin got bought, was like truly one of the funniest NFT experiences I’ve had, or like one, three moments I’ve had just watching you be like, I can’t believe I left this listed.

1:50:39Yeah. That thing’s been on a ride. It actually got like, got liquidated on a loan platform because I was that I was fucking around with and trying and I forgot about it completely.

1:50:47And it got licked. So it’s not even mine anymore.

1:50:51It was like, all I had to do is like pay like three ETH.

1:50:53I didn’t even fucking know. But yeah, GG, that Penguin.

1:50:56I mean, if it makes you feel better.

1:50:58I don’t know if you remember that, that Niftex Ape Punk that was fractionalized.

1:51:03I went to go save it from like a one ETH bid and I missed it by like 4,000 of a penny.

1:51:09And then the guy got it because that was 4,000 of a penny short.

1:51:14Brutal. So, but it is what it is.

1:51:17Brutal, man. Um, I’m curious, KVM, I’ll kind of like turn, turn things over to you here.

1:51:23Like, what do you got on your radar outside of YEEE?

1:51:27What’s good? Like, do you have anything attention wise looking forward to in the markets or just?

1:51:33I mean, just since I’m like a short term trader, it’s just riding the waves.

1:51:37Like now we have this crazy pump on everything and, you know, I’ll just trade that in different ways that as it comes down the pipe, um, I try not to have like biases or, you know, get too, uh, committed to positions.

1:51:50So I just think things as they come, I don’t have any like good things to throw on the radar.

1:51:55No meme coins, no random shit like that.

1:51:58I’m mostly, I mostly just trade majors to be honest with you.

1:52:01Um, that’s pretty much it.

1:52:03And then like, you know, for equities, it’s just literally the news of the day and earnings that come down. So I’m kind of like a shitty guy to ask for good ideas that I just let stuff come to me badly. Um, so that’s, that’s the life of like a trader of a short term trader.

1:52:17You kind of have to like, we make jokes all the time.

1:52:19It’s like, don’t be an analyst. Like it, we don’t, it’s more like a turn your brain off style of trading that I’m really good at. Um, so it’s more like, you know, playing a video game and reacting quickly and, um, just being in tune with different news that might come out and how it will affect things and how liquidity plays a part in that.

1:52:37But, uh, yeah, sadly I have no good ideas.

1:52:42Just watch the news and wait for the details.

1:52:45We’re going to eat all day. And then I just take trades as they come and, you know, keep it simple.

1:52:49I’m a big fan of keeping things simple, not overthinking and just doing things as they come by. Um, other than that, chilling with the family, you know, going on some work trips, not much going on over here. Just relaxing, I guess.

1:53:04Uh, I mean, it sounds like a good life, man.

1:53:07Uh, yeah.

1:53:09Can’t complain. I mean, look, that that’s, I think that’s like the dream, right?

1:53:11Like be building something and not get caught up in the hype of having to make a thousand trades a day. And yeah, I mean, like reading Twitter and I definitely get like, maybe I’m going to be y’all even say, yeah, I get like jealous or not jealous of like, I don’t care about the PNLs or PNLs are super small.

1:53:29It means I’m like, these kids are, I just like, these people are dumb or like something like that. I’m like, it tilts me. It’s like, yeah, I shouldn’t let stuff like that tilt me.

1:53:36Um, but that’s when I come out firing on the Twitter.

1:53:39Once I’ve had like a glass of wine.

1:53:41It’s like, I can tell when he’s been drinking a little bit.

1:53:43I can tell when he’s been drinking a little bit, man.

1:53:45Yeah. Right. Like if I have a glass of wine, it’s like a 7 PM, you know, the KBM tweets might get a little raw.

1:53:54All right. Cool. So I’ll be looking forward to that tonight. Happy hour after happy hour. You know, you’re feeling a little frisky going into the weekend.

1:54:02I’m going to start tagging you at shit at 7 PM on Thursdays and Fridays.

1:54:06I’m trying to go on a fucking health kick.

1:54:08I’ve been saying that for 10 years, but any day now I’m thinking it might start.

1:54:13I see myself on the camera. I’m like, Holy fuck. I am washed on. I’m the washed on now, bro.

1:54:19Um, yeah. So I’m, I’m trying to stay off the sauce.

1:54:23Maybe, uh, maybe I should have some green smoothies.

1:54:26I don’t know. Um, but yeah, um, just chilling all around.

1:54:31Oh, we love, we love what you’re building.

1:54:34Uh, you are again, uh, an account that we can’t wait to see tweet on positions and then flip, you know, an hour later, uh, and then flip again, 10 minutes later.

1:54:43Um, yeah, man, we love what you’re doing.

1:54:47Yeah, guys. Thanks for having me on. I mean, like, sorry, I was late. I know you just did a two hour show now.

1:54:52Uh, I’m sure it was a banger though.

1:54:54Missed the first half. I’m sure I’ve reiterated a bunch of stuff you already talked about, but, um, yeah, good stuff. No, we’d love to have you on and, uh, you know, great to finally meet, I guess, face to face here. And, um, if you’re listening, make sure you go and check out Yeet.

1:55:09Uh, I don’t know.

1:55:12Feel, feel free to cap it out for hard show for Yeet here.

1:55:15Yeah, I mean, like, uh, it’s just the other stuff I was saying, like, if you, if you’re already gambling somewhere and playing on another casino, um, and you haven’t tried to eat, I definitely messaged me.

1:55:25I can onboard you and show you around and throw you some, uh, some juice as they call it in the industry. But the reason you’d want to play on Yeet versus everywhere else is because, you know, you have direct access to me, other founders, a community that’s actually positive and fun to be around.

1:55:39Um, and we, we own the whole stack.

1:55:42Everything’s instant support withdrawals.

1:55:43Like, I don’t know. We’re actually people who give a shit, I guess you could say.

1:55:47Um, and I’ve, I’ve been a huge gambler.

1:55:50I think I’ve done like, you know, multiple nine figures of volume in online casinos.

1:55:54So I think I know what people want and how they want to be treated.

1:55:56So you’re in good company if you plan on Yeet for sure.

1:55:59But yeah.

1:56:01Amazing. G, KBM, fantastic show.

1:56:05Uh, thanks for coming on.

1:56:07Um, yeah. And for everybody who tuned in, thank you.

1:56:10Uh, we’ll be back Tuesday, 10 a.m.

1:56:12Eastern and, uh, we’ll catch you on the next one.

1:56:15Cheers guys. Metafels. Peace.