Rhynotic Talks the Future of FWA

0:52What is up, everybody? We are back. Another episode. Happy Tuesday. It is a lovely August 18th. G-Money, how are you doing this morning, brother?

1:01I’m doing well. Weekend was good. Excited to be here.

1:04Exciting weekend. I won’t beat around the bush. We’ve got an exciting guest coming on today at the start of the show here.

1:13I mean, what main character, right? Like I saw I saw a post that was like, it’s it’s Vlad versus Kobe versus Vitalik.

1:23And then somebody was like, no, no, no, it’s not Vitalik. He’s not representing ETH anymore. It’s Renautic. He is he is representing ETH. I love it. So excited to have him on the show today.

1:35And we’ll jump into it in like a second here. But anything else before we jump right in?

1:42No, I think, you know, well, I think we should get to markets afterwards, obviously. But I think there’s a lot of cool, interesting stuff happening with with fake world assets. And, you know, I’m excited to have this convo.

1:54Yeah, let’s jump right into it. I’m excited for this one. Adam, good morning. Hope you’re well. We’ve been looking forward to this conversation since last week when you said you jump on.

2:06I know I have 100 questions. She probably has a million questions, as you could tell, pre-show already firing away.

2:12Anyway, how are you doing, man? How has life been since this, you know, finding magic in a bottle for the second time?

2:20Good morning. It’s been fine. Honestly, it’s it helps that it’s the second time around.

2:25And I mean, I know this isn’t my first kind of round of podcasts.

2:29So I’m sure people have seen other ones, but much more chill than the punk strategy days.

2:35It’s weird. Like, I think there’s more interest, which is interesting.

2:39Like, I think for the last one, if you weren’t interested in punks, you didn’t really care about punk strategy.

2:44But I think this is kind of dominated a little more of CT.

2:49And I’ve gotten more like CT followers as a result.

2:53It’s been chill. I’m not not stressed.

2:56Cool, calm, collected. Knock on wood. We’ll see what happens.

3:00I’m sure things there was a stressful week for sure.

3:04I think the week of turning on external buys was stressful, but.

3:10Well, OK, let me let me. First off, you know, I have apologized to you.

3:15I got to just give you a formal apology. I feel like I went in pretty hard on you on it.

3:20It was more of like what you did with the buybacks, like what you know, was it was money that you rightfully earned and served.

3:28To me, it was just more about the communication thing.

3:29And I think that that’s like if you can just communicate things clearly in advance.

3:35And like I think that and I speak to I say this as somebody that did have a project at one point.

3:39And like the one thing that I always tried to do is like just try it like to nip things in the bud as early as possible.

3:46If I know what like there’s sometimes when you’re like, I don’t know what’s going to happen.

3:49I don’t know what we’re going to do. We haven’t made that decision yet.

3:51But when you have it, just like just communicate as early as possible, because if not, people just like, you know, have these wild imaginations, especially in crypto.

4:02Like, oh, yeah, like, you know, Adam’s going to work on this for the rest of his life.

4:06You know, like it’s you know, it’s like it’s just like not the way the world is. Right.

4:09So I apologize for that. I appreciate taking feedback, you know.

4:14And I do like I think, you know, with everything that happened, I handled it within like 24 hours.

4:21And so I think like I did the best I could. I also it’s hard to say.

4:27I mean, people have crazy expectations and I some people I’m not the best communicator, to be clear.

4:34Like it’s this is a two man team, me and Tito and I run the socials.

4:38I don’t really trust anyone to do it other than me.

4:40And it only takes one bad tweet to kind of nuke things that only takes I can write a bad tweet also.

4:46And so it’s not like something that’s out of my scope.

4:50Yeah, well, I’ll tell you this.

4:53From here on out, if you ever want to chat communications or comms and stuff in the future, feel free.

4:58Feel free to hit me up. I’m always here to offer you advice.

5:01But yeah, you’re going to hire someone to probably would help.

5:05But we’ll see. I don’t know. It’s kind of fun.

5:11But yeah, no, it’s to your point of like people just being like crazy expectations.

5:16I think I saw somebody like tweet the other day of like, oh, yeah, like what are they going to do with all the team tokens that they bought back?

5:23Are they going to redistribute that out? I’m like, that’s like what that’s like they’re like.

5:28That’s the reserve. That’s the whole point. Exactly.

5:30Yeah. So they’re like, all right. So now that they’ve done the buybacks, what are they doing with the tokens?

5:34Yeah. And it’s like, yeah, like how you want, like they can’t just keep giving all the money that they earn and work for back into it.

5:42So like people just get like wildly like out there.

5:46So I will say I wasn’t as I have to be careful what I say, you know, on these recordings.

5:52Like I think I’m going to be a little more kind of methodical with what I tweet.

5:57And I’ve been working on that. But I think people took one of the pods I did.

6:01I probably the froke one, not out of context, but I was trying to be like, oh, like how much of the future funds moving forward.

6:09And I probably wasn’t as careful with my wording as I should have been.

6:14And so I have to I’ve been trying to work on that.

6:16And so and like also, again, it’s this is like a building in public kind of thing, which I know is a bit of a meme, but I think everyone has been burned a lot on projects that view token holders as second class citizens.

6:29And so I’ve been trying to not do that. And the second that I didn’t do that, people were like, oh, Adam, it’s just like the rest of them.

6:37And so I put myself in their shoes, like I’m not, you know, I trade, I invest, I see other projects, like I understand what it’s like.

6:46And so I didn’t really take anything to heart for the most part.

6:49But well, I mean, obviously, with like talking about the future, things change, the metas change, what the market wants changes.

7:00I’m curious from like the start of this to today, like you guys have teased out where FWA, where launches.

7:09I’m curious, like, was that part of like the original vision?

7:13How is like the community shape, like where where this goes, where you think this can address like the market?

7:20Because I I think G and I also would agree on this and everybody else who’s watching this.

7:26There are a lot of things that people are unhappy with, like NFTs just sitting vacant and dormant in, you know, OpenSea wallets that now has changed.

7:36Now you’re going from like, hey, you’ve collected something, how can you engage with that collection?

7:41Now it’s the launch side.

7:44I’m curious just how you’re approaching that from a founder perspective.

7:48Yeah, I mean, it definitely wasn’t the initial idea of the project, you know, but you can kind of only so much is in your control.

7:58And when you launch it, you see what people are interested in, how people are interacting with it, it kind of just comes to fruition of like we should do something like this.

8:06And I think a big criticism of the protocol is that not enough people are taking the NFT and they’re like selling it back into the bid.

8:13And so I think having these artists come in and try to launch through the mechanism, which I think will result in more people taking the NFT option, which is the whole goal.

8:25I think there’s a good net positive for the protocol.

8:29And so we’ll see what happens. It’s I think I had this idea probably a week into the launch.

8:35I kind of I think I don’t know if I sent it on Twitter, if I sent it on.

8:40So I have a discord for the season two NFTs that I chat in every day and I get a lot of feedback there.

8:45So I think there’s like 200 people in there.

8:47And then I think there’s a couple of telegrams. It’s hard to hard to bounce into all of them.

8:52But people have great ideas and I try to pull from them.

8:55It’s kind of like we’re all working together on it.

8:57But again, I am kind of manning the ship.

9:01And so it’s can easily steer it in the wrong direction.

9:05And then when everyone gets angry, we steer it back.

9:07And I’m like, you guys are right.

9:09I’m not I don’t have the best ideas.

9:12And I’m willing to you just approach everything like like, you know, not Hail Mary, but hey, let’s fuck around and find out.

9:19I feel like that. I feel like that’s kind of in your DNA a little bit.

9:24Yeah, I mean, I don’t take it too seriously.

9:27Like, I think it’s all kind of not a joke, but like crypto is a bit of a joke and like we should have fun with it.

9:34And I’m having fun as long as everyone’s having fun.

9:37And it’s I think it’s a this is like I feel like we’ve, like you said, kind of struck gold.

9:42And it makes sense to put my full like kind of attention to it.

9:46And a big criticism we had when we turned the buybacks on was just like, oh, Adam wants something every month.

9:52He that’s like what he does. And that’s what I’ve been very transparent about is this is none of these are my life’s work.

9:58I’m not going to work on that for 30 years. But. But. I will continue to work on them as they are successful. People are interested. And this is a no-brainer. Like, I’m kind of fully working on this for the foreseeable future.

10:09And so I think that was a big issue we had and had to kind of, like, get across. And that’s another kind of communication issue on me.

10:18Cool. Yeah. So just to double-click on that for a minute, like, I know I’ve been having a lot of conversations with people, obviously, like, behind the scenes and stuff.

10:27And I’ve been, like, you know, shilling it to people. I’m like, hey, I think this is, like, really cool.

10:31One of those pieces of feedback is, like, yeah, I’m just scared of, like, how long, you know, the team is going to commit to it and this and that.

10:38And I know, like, I think I’ve even communicated to you as private. You’re like, you know, like I’ve said, like, you know, we’re buying back the token.

10:44We have a vested interest. I’m working on this for an extended period of time.

10:48I think that, like, just, you know, at some point, just even if you’re like, hey, I’m going to be working at this for at least, like, X amount of time.

10:55And then if at some point you choose not to or to move on to something else, you have, like, a new head of this that will, like, continue it, right, with your oversight or maybe you’re an advisor or whatever.

11:08But I think that’s just, like, something to think about from a communication perspective.

11:11Yeah, I mean, I think it’s even too early to even think about that.

11:16Like, I think it’s just head down, working on product.

11:22And who knows? I mean, the only point, and I know people will, like, kind of take it out of context, but the only point is that we see all these, like, dead L2s, these dead products tweeting for three years and being like, hey, like, we’re still doing updates.

11:35Like, governance, vote on what you want.

11:37And it’s just kind of dead. And I think Crypto will be in a much better spot if we just, after, when we all realized it’s dead, we just took it out and killed it and, like, we’re going on the next thing.

11:45And so that’s kind of the mentality I take.

11:47Not that, oh, project, great idea, thank you, and then we kill a great idea, we stop working on it.

11:53It’s just, do I probably kill ideas earlier than people like, like, 10,000 tokens?

12:02But I personally was like, the mechanism didn’t work.

12:04We’re here, I’m like, the mechanism works great, we should continue to work on it.

12:08Yeah, you guys have essentially taken over Chainlink at this point, which, you know, I would say that’s a metric of success.

12:15And this project would not even exist had we just continued to work on a mechanism that I felt like didn’t work for, you know, three, six months.

12:22And so there’s pros and cons to it, and so, yeah.

12:25No, I mean, I would give you a lot of credit there, too, because, you know, again, whenever, like, you’re an entrepreneur and you’re working on something, right, like, like, all these things are your creation, right?

12:36So obviously you don’t want to see them die.

12:37But, like, you also need to be realistic of, like, this didn’t work, is this something that I really want to work on, you know, and try to force when, like, it’s obviously clear it didn’t work.

12:49And you just have to, like, cut your losses and move on because you want to also be doing shit that you care about and that you’re excited to do, right?

12:57So I totally get that. And, like, listen, this thing is great.

13:00I think, to me, the thing I like the most about it, and I’ll say that, like, this, to me, is, like, a very ETH-centric thing, and I tweeted this last week, is that people generally, developers in ETH, when somebody builds something cool, they’re not like, oh, let me fork it and create a competitor.

13:17They’re like, oh, this is really cool.

13:19Let me build something on top of it.

13:22And FWA is one of the first things, I think, in a while where I’ve seen, like, people like, oh, this is awesome.

13:28Like, there’s, like, five or six other – I mean, there’s things popping up every week of people just building cool primitives on top of FWA.

13:36And we’ve seen some forks.

13:39Majority are on, like, you know, we’ve seen some on Robin Hood.

13:42We’ve seen some on Solana.

13:44They’re all trade-offs, and I don’t think it really kind of has what we have, personally, and the beta play is never there.

13:52But, yeah, we’ve seen 10-plus products already built on top of FWA.

13:56I’m sure we’ll see even more.

13:59And it’s really rallied to the people.

14:00I know I got some flack for being, like, the Save Ethereum meme, which I love.

14:06I think it’s funny. I love it. I think everyone’s like, oh, like, you know, the hubris of thinking that you can save Ethereum.

14:13I was like, no, but if everyone launched shit on mainnet and, like, really brought activity back and we all started trading on mainnet, we would save Ethereum, and it’s kind of what we need.

14:21And so, you know, it’s a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I think the intention is there.

14:26And so I think the more people that kind of agree with that, the better.

14:31Also, I mean, saving Chainlink.

14:34Yeah. You know, like, I mean, Chainlink’s up, you know, since – I tweeted this out yesterday, the day before.

14:40Since FakeWorld Assets launched, Chainlink’s up, like, 13% or a billion dollars in FDV, you know.

14:47And Chainlink’s, like, I don’t even – what’s the FDV of Chainlink?

14:50Like 9 billion?

14:52Yeah, that’s probably all because of FWA, let’s be honest.

14:57No external factors there.

15:00I mean, OpenSea’s also got to be happy, too, right?

15:02Like, I feel like I’ve opened OpenSea more in the last three weeks than the last year just because of FWA.

15:10And I’m sure there’s a ton of, like, a ton of other people.

15:13I’m surprised – have you talked to them at all about, like, working together in any way?

15:18Yeah, a bit. I mean, we’re talking to everyone and, like, there’s kind of – everyone wants Ethereum and NFTs to win.

15:24And so, anywhere it makes sense, we’re having conversations.

15:28And we’ll see what happens.

15:30But it’s obviously – it takes time and whatever makes sense.

15:34And it’s easier, like, to their credit and a lot of these other companies’ credit.

15:39You know, I’m a two-man team that kind of steers the ship, like it or not, you know, for people.

15:45But when you’re – these big conglomerates and these big kind of DAOs and foundations, it’s really difficult to move quick.

15:52And that’s kind of, for better or worse.

15:55Like, they’re going to make less decisions and less wrong decisions.

15:57But as a result, like, they’re just moving slow.

15:59And so, I get it. But not anyone specifically, but, like, you know what I mean?

16:04It makes sense that we can iterate quickly and some of these older companies cannot.

16:10I think the biggest decision I think most people are asking and probably blowing your DMs up about was the Bold PFP collection, which was rumored to be launching on FWA.

16:23I wish. I wish. I mean, Bold, we’ve talked.

16:29He likes the project.

16:31You know, probably not in the cards.

16:33Bold PFP, too. Who knows? You know, when they launch the second one. Little Bold PFPs, like, hopefully that one kind of will make it in.

16:42But definitely not. And so, I’m hoping we’ll announce the first one today.

16:48I’m kind of – we’ll see.

16:50We’ll see. So, you have the first project.

16:53We have the first project lined up.

16:54We might even push it – the one that I have lined up, we might push back and put something in front of it.

17:00I just want to make sure – there are a lot of people that have, like, crazy expectations for it.

17:05And, like, I think it’s a really good project and a really good artist.

17:10And so – but I think we’ll see.

17:13And so, there’s a chance that I might, like, kind of do something a little special in front just to, like, kind of show the mechanism, show how it works.

17:21And the worst-case scenario is throwing thousands of people at this artist that wanted to try something.

17:27And, like, when I can kind of take the brunt of it, like I have been.

17:30And so, I’m probably leaning toward that sense.

17:33But it’s an audit, so we’ll have to see how long it takes for the auditor to finish.

17:38But it’s looking, like, hopefully end of this week.

17:42Nice. All right. Yeah, I think – like, first off, I think the mechanism is very elegant and interesting of, like, the distribution.

17:50And we had a quit on last week, and we were kind of talking about, all right, if an artist were to launch on it, I think the – because it’s, like, would they create their own pool or would it be part of the full pool?

18:01And he brought up a really valid point, in my opinion, of, like, put it in the full pool because anything you get from that, even if it’s a floor, is special, right?

18:12Whereas, like, in a normal, like, NFT mint, you’re like, oh, I got the floor of this project.

18:16Like, I want to get the grail. But all of a sudden, if it’s in this pool of, like, larger assets, even the floor is special because you know it’s, like, a rare spin, right?

18:24It’s a rarer spin.

18:26And I think that, like, again, a lot of it comes down to, like, psychology, right?

18:29And, like, feeling like you won.

18:32And that gives you, like, a good experience if you want to come back.

18:34So kudos to you of all of it.

18:37I think, like, the first convo we had, the first time I DM’d you on Telegram was once, like, I started – FWA started – it came up on my feed a lot.

18:47And I was just, like, super busy and I didn’t get to it.

18:49And then once I got to it and I understood it, I was, like – I think I was, like, dude, you’re a genius.

18:54I’m, like, such a great mechanism.

18:56So kudos, kudos.

18:58Thank you. And it’s funny. I know our mutual friend, like, Snuffy, I was showing it to him between the first exploit and the relaunch.

19:07And I was, like, oh, here’s the site. I was, like, yeah, we lost, like, $100,000 on – because we had to pay back the exploit.

19:14You lost $100,000? Well, like, yeah, in the first launch, there was an exploit and the guy who deposited his punk lost it because they were able to influence what was pulled.

19:24And so out of my own pocket, like, I paid that guy back and then I had to pay for the audits, which were about, like, I think it was $17,000 at the new relaunch.

19:32And so going into the relaunch, we were down, like, already, like, $97,000.

19:37And we could have just kind of called it there and launched something new.

19:40But I was, like, no, I think this is really good. And so there was a good three-week period where I was, like, ah, I don’t even know if this is going to – you know, we’ve already launched.

19:48People have seen it. All my friends were, like, yeah, it was cool, but, like, I don’t know if I’d play it again.

19:53And so – We got to get – speaking of Sluffy, we got to get one of these in there at some point.

19:59So we got to get a lot of these in there. And so we got to get into it. Thank you. Oh, one of the Watt? Yeah, that’s sick.

20:01I know. I was in your DMs. Like, I do think, like, there’s something interesting here with, like, physical product, right? Ultimately, it’s, like, you have to get it vaulted and put it in there.

20:11But again, like, I think that, to me, has been the most interesting thing about FWA is that it almost becomes very similar to, like, what Uniswap does with, like, token liquidity, right?

20:20It’s, like, it becomes, like, this sinkhole where, dude, if you have any asset, like, you can just ultimately just put it on FWA and earn yield on it that you otherwise couldn’t, which I find hella, hella compelling.

20:34Yeah, I mean, so I saw this other company, Watch.Fun, who’s running, like, a pretty strong clipping campaign right now, and they’re doing, it’s the same thing.

20:41It’s, like, hey, you spin, you can get a watch. Do you, in, like, the sequence of what you see being added to FWA, right now it’s just NFTs that are, you know, JPEGs, do you see the RWA arc hitting here?

21:00Yeah, I mean, we have, we already have a lot of the Pokemon cards in, like, we have, Emblem Vault was able to bridge over Collector Crypt, and they were able to bridge over BZ, and we’ve worked with the BZ team.

21:12And I think that’s just, like, the first iteration. We can get anything, anything in the pool makes sense, and so we’ll see.

21:18I don’t think it makes sense to rush things, but I think a big proponent of FWA is, like, we’re not doing any of that.

21:26We’re not vaulting things. We’re not authenticating things. We are just putting assets that already exist on chain in the pool, and so if a third-party company like Collector Crypt already has all the infrastructure, and we want to just put it in our pool, I think that helps them, helps us, and, but we’re not going to do any of the legwork of, like, is this a real thing on chain?

21:47And so I think that, we’ll leave that to the professionals, and we’ll stick with the NFTs that we know are authenticated, because that’s kind of how they exist.

21:57A big thing for me, though, is I still have a lot of, I call it power, I don’t, but, like, I decide what goes in the pool, which I don’t love.

22:07It’s just kind of one thing I want to kind of take my hands off of, and so I’m working on figuring that out.

22:12I’m not sure what solution we’re going to do, but kind of if I can focus more on, like, the FWA launches and let somehow some mechanism determine what gets added and removed from the pool.

22:25Like, there’s probably a world where we take out the least, you know, favorite asset that’s in the pool every, every week, and then we add in something new to keep things interesting, and so I’m not quite sure what it’s going to look like, but.

22:41Yeah, I guess, like, the, like, that kind of leads me to this question of, like, I think, so right now, I think a pool is, like, a little under 0.1 ETH, right?

22:50So it’s a little under, let’s say, $200. Is there a way, and I know, like, MegaRip is, like, a way to kind of do these pools, doing less, like, is there, like, have you, what are the complexities behind creating, like, different pools of, like, spin amounts, right?

23:07Of, like, maybe if you want to spend 50 bucks or whatever. I’m sure it’s, like, I’m oversimplifying it, and I’m sure there’s a lot of, like, back-end engineering that needs to happen in order for this to happen, but, like, what are your thoughts there?

23:19Well, the only way that would really work is, and again, the price to purchase in the pool is fully dependent on what’s inside, and so if we wanted a pool that had a lower purchase price, we would have to cap what would go in the pool, and, like, have those bands.

23:36Maybe, like, only things between 0.01 to 1 ETH can be added to this pool, and then that would be a cheaper option.

23:43I think that has its pros and cons. I don’t really like doing that. I think the way we have it makes sense. I think if we lower, because right now the lowest backing price is 0.05, if we lower that back to 0.01, which it was originally, that will kind of drift everything down, so if that was ever an issue, we could do that.

24:01But I think the more things we add to the pool, it kind of drifts down anyway, and so right now there’s 6,000 NFTs in the pool.

24:08The majority of those are on the cheaper end, and so as more things get added, it will just kind of drift down.

24:15On the other hand, some people have been really interested in a high-value pool, and, like, I want to buy something that’s, on average, 1 ETH.

24:25On a technical level, it’s impossible for all-in-one pool to kind of skew that. It would have to be separate pools, which we’re considering, but I think it’s kind of down the line.

24:36It doesn’t really make sense right now, but we’ve seen products built on top that are like, oh, what if I, you know, you spend a small amount, and you get, like, a different set of assets, but it’s just a different, it’s all kind of built on top, which has been kind of cool, and, like, we’ve seen, like, an insurance thing built on top, which I thought was kind of interesting.

24:57Like, you can kind of insure your deposit, which was cool. Obviously, Quit made his flop protocol, which was kind of interesting, and so he’s also working on something else, and so I think the less complexity on, like, a pool level allows, it makes it easier for people to build on top of it, and so I think we’re going to probably stick with one pool for all of the assets.

25:24And then with the individual pools that we’re working on next, it will kind of be up to the creator, and so there’s a world where they can kind of make the small pool, or they can make the big pool, and that’s just kind of out of our hands.

25:37Right. That’s like, I know I’ve spoken to a couple people with big collections who are like, yeah, I’d love to have my own pool set the price and, like, run spins on top of it, which is really interesting as well, right?

25:47Because then you start having these people that have these collections also be like a, let’s call it, for lack of a better term, is like a distributor, right?

25:57Like an affiliate, because they’re kind of pushing the protocol by pushing their own specific pool, which ultimately leads to more spins.

26:04Yeah. I keep coming back to, you know, how much inspiration have you taken from Hyperliquid and Polymarket, who have prolificated their product through, you know, like, basically just being the backbone for everything that’s built on top of them, and using builder codes, and, you know, basically making new markets that people can interact with.

26:24Mm-hmm. I mean, obviously, Hyperliquid’s one of the best products that we’ve seen in crypto, and so they’re an inspiration on, like, the token level, but I also think they’re just, like, very straightforward of how they, like, they launch things, and they’re very transparent, and they’re very community-focused, and so we kind of try to do that.

26:44But I think an important thing to note is, too, like, I don’t, we don’t have a marketing team. I am a terrible marketer. I don’t market, I don’t, we don’t pay KOLs, we don’t do any sort of affiliate links, we don’t do anything like that, just because I think it’s a good product will do it for you, and we’ve kind of already seen that.

27:01Like, the 16 things we’ve launched, we’ve never done that. And it’s a, it’s a pro and a con. Like, I think some people really like that, like, gotcha marketing, and that, like, you know, they want their favorite KOL to post about it, but we’ve already seen, I, we have, there’s 3,000 holders at the token, and these people are marketing it way better than I ever could, and so I’m, I’ll kind of let them post their theories and whatnot, and I’ll just kind of focus on building the product, and it’s been kind of a good dynamic in that sense, but, and I think kind of Hyperliquid does the same thing, like, they’re just, you know, they’re heads down working on shit, and then the people making the threads are making the threads, and they’re not paying them to do that, so.

27:39Cool, yeah, no, I think, like, I’ve had a couple ideas, and we were talking about it on screen, off screen before we came on, but, you know, I’ll probably, yeah, try to figure that out, because I do think, like, to me, it’s like, what I find interesting is, like, first, we built, you built out the protocol layer of the supply, right?

27:59And now, all, now we need to figure out how to get demand and people wanting to spin, one, within crypto, and two, like, outside of the crypto space, so, yeah, it’s very, it’s, dude, it’s so cool, it’s a very elegant solution, very excited.

28:13I know, I know you have to jump in a minute, but Hunter, do you have any, any last questions or anything for Adam?

28:21Yeah, I guess, the only, the only other question I have here is, you know, as, as you look at the future, where, with, you know, NFTs, and what you’ve done, does the fungible side of things interest you at all here?

28:39Because whenever people talk about launchpads, and new launching mechanisms, I go back to one of the biggest issues that we seem to have in the industry is fair launches of fungible tokens.

28:50Is that something that you’ve thought about in any way?

28:53Yeah, I mean, I’m not against it. And even now, we’ve built kind of the infrastructure for people to wrap ERC20s and put them in the pool, so that already kind of exists.

29:02And we’ve done it with FWA, we’ve done it with Punk Strategy, I think with Mog, Pepe, Rekt, maybe a couple other ones, but that already exists, it’s super easy to do.

29:13If people like the FWARE launch for NFTs, like, there’s no reason you couldn’t do this with ERC20s as well.

29:20And kind of like, that could be the way to launch a token into the pool.

29:25Will that be me that builds it? I don’t know.

29:27And so, there’s a chance that we build up FWARE launches, people like it, it’s permissionless, it’s ready to go.

29:32And then that’s like a product on top that people have kind of built.

29:35And that’d be super cool to see. Or, if that doesn’t happen, I could probably do it myself.

29:39But I’m not against it. And so, we’ll kind of see how, there’s a lot of moving parts, and we kind of have to see how, if it even works.

29:47And so, I think it will, but we’ll see what the market thinks.

29:52Exciting. Yep. Awesome.

29:54Well, Adam, thank you so much for jumping on. Pleasure.

29:58If you guys aren’t following him, go follow him on Twitter.

30:00At Rhynotic. And go check out FWA and do a spin yourself. Appreciate your time, brother. Awesome. All right. Thank you, guys. Appreciate it. Thanks so much, Adam. Bye. Man, awesome. I love it. Incredible time. Dude, that was great. He’s such a gigabrain. So it’s great. Yeah. So it’s great listening to him talk and think about stuff. I didn’t want to necessarily put him on the spot. I don’t think he was going to share who the artist was, but regardless, I think it’s cool.

30:30You know, part of me, part of me was thinking we might see Wrecked here. I feel like that’s a move OSF might make. Because the little thing that he dropped at the end there was Wrecked has already done the fungible side with them. OSF has a launch that is slated for Friday. And, you know, he’s saying, hey, we’re going to announce it today. We might move one ahead of them.

30:57Um, the timing, the timing could work out there. Maybe. Yeah. And it’s on Robin Hood. I guess that’s, uh, yeah, that’s what I was about to say. I think his, his, uh, launches on Robin Hood.

31:09Can they do other chains?

31:14Well, they can. I think you have to, I think you have to vault it. I think you have to M and vault it.

31:18Okay. Maybe. Who knows? Um, but yeah, I don’t know. I, like, again, I think it’s one of the most interesting things I see happening on chain. Um, so that’s kind of why I’ve been like really bulled up on it. And I think even at, I don’t know what it’s trading at right now, about 25 mil, I think.

31:34Like right before we came on the show or 25 to 30, it’s been flipping between there. Yeah. I just think it’s like so cheap for like what the upside is. Um, and I think that like, again, I think the fact that he’s building the protocol layer for people to build on top of is the most interesting part.

31:52So now people can come in and like build cool things on top of it. And they don’t necessarily have to worry about them trying to like fully vertically integrate everything. Um, because they want to take all of it.

32:05Like he’s, it’s almost like he’s leaving some money on the table for people to go pick up. And I think that’s how you build like a good ecosystem, right. As opposed to trying to fully vertically integrate. So.

32:16Yeah. I, I look, I keep going back to the comparable of, I think what made polymarket blow up, uh, was a lot of the people that built on top of polymarket and the access and, uh, the, the repetitiveness of clicking.

32:33And I just see the comparables so much. Um, damn, I really wish you a salon so I could ask on the cross chain question, because that, that seems to be, especially for NFTs right now, I’ve seen so much activity on Robinhood and you’re seeing people choose to launch on Robinhood, um, because that they’re just the demand and, you know, the euphoria that’s happening there.

32:55Um, you know, how do you, how do you save ETH, NFT, like ETH and NFTs on ETH by using other chain activity that that’s even more interesting.

33:06Um, yeah, I, I think that like, well, I mean, have you been, do you know what’s going on with stockbrokers here?

33:15I mean, to an extent, yes.

33:18They, like, I guess they launched a launch pad.

33:21The pairings, yeah. They launched another, there was another launch pad launched yesterday.

33:26And like, I guess it, it went not great from like what I saw online.

33:32Oh, Anthem, Anthem’s launch pad? No, no, not Anthem’s launch pad.

33:35I think stockbrokers launched a launch pad as well yesterday.

33:38Anthem launched a launch pad, which like, we can get into that in a minute.

33:44I, I think, yeah, we can get into that in a minute.

33:46But I just, the stockbroker stuff.

33:48Um, I think they, they did a launch pad.

33:51It didn’t go well. And I think like the stockbrokers token is down like a ton, uh, since then.

33:57And somebody was like, it’s like Ponds V2.

34:00I don’t know what happened with Ponds V2.

34:02So I feel like you’re more in the trenches there. No, they’re saying it’s the second version of Ponds was, uh, oh yeah, I guess, I guess to an extent. Yeah. It’s the V2, it’s the V2 of Ponds V2.

34:13Yeah. Yeah. V3, Ponds V2, whatever.

34:18But like, apparently there’s, there was like, I guess, um, the initial pool pairing got MEV’d and people that like tried to pair on the launch pad.

34:28There was like, I think an exploit that got MEV’d and yeah, it didn’t go great.

34:35And I think that’s all of Robinhood tokens down yesterday from my understanding.

34:42I mean, look, if the product’s good and, and people want it, just like Renaudix just said, like you can relaunch and, you know, lick your wounds and take care of the people that got screwed and, and keep going, it shouldn’t delay it.

34:56Um, I mean, if, if this is what, if this is what ends Robinhood chain, then, you know, I think that’s all you even know. I don’t think, I don’t think it’s going to end Robinhood chain, but I just think it’s interesting because I think a lot of, a lot of Robinhood tokens, uh, went down yesterday because of that.

35:14Uh, I actually know I would push back and say a lot of Robinhood activity got sold off yesterday with BNB and Pace, uh, popping off.

35:24So you had Kobe follow the cat.

35:27That token went from a hundred K up to like what?

35:3040 million in market cap.

35:32Um, I mean, I had friends making a hundred thousand dollars and, you know, logging off for the weekend.

35:39Um, I also.

35:41Logging off for the weekend, dude. It’s, it was Monday. I know. They logged off for the weekend on Monday. Wow. Exactly. Yeah. They’re like, it’s the weekend. Um, and then obviously BNB, I don’t, I don’t know if you’ve been paying attention.

35:51BNB has been going crazy. You had, uh, CZ burn a token that was in his wallet and that ripped up to like, again, thing, things are, things are crazy.

36:03Um, and I will say on the fungible side, on the, on the meme coin trading and token trading side, we are seeing mass rotation.

36:11If you watch bridge activity and Lute’s been monitoring this and, and had some, we had a very good conversation internally, uh, yesterday on what we see coming here, but the rotation has been out of Robinhood into Solana base and BNB.

36:28Um, those flows are slightly coming back this morning.

36:31We saw some coming back, uh, in, but a lot of people just want to go to where the music’s playing, man. Uh, and Robinhood’s been hot, like fiery, fiery hot for the last two weeks.

36:42And, you know, if you drop the token, if you drop the NFT project, it was ripping, it was going crazy. And now I think there just happens to be some motion happening on other chains and people are like, okay, let me go play there. Last night, there was just no, there was no activity for like three hours.

36:58There was nothing that was going crazy, nothing popping off.

37:00Um, and so you probably have some people that are like, Hey, I’m up a bunch or I just, I keep losing money. Let me step away a little bit. And you’re that’s, that’s leading to the sell off.

37:11Yeah. I, I mean, I, I like this, this, uh, tracker.

37:15You should put that, uh, the flows tracker.

37:17You should make that like a dashboard on Lute.

37:20Yeah. We can do that. Yeah. I think, I think that would be pretty cool. Cause it’s almost like an early signal of like, Oh, like money’s starting to move back here. Like, you know, by these means, not that it’s necessarily my game, but like, I think that if it was my game, that would be very valuable.

37:34Yeah. So we, we internally, I don’t know how much hate I’m going to get internally from talking about this, but I mean, one of the, one of the things that we built with our new blockchain company that we, we run, um, like the sister company to Lute is a, it’s a flows tracker that essentially at any, like when we find a token that is starting to pop off, we look at every single wallet, like buyer and holder that’s coming in.

38:02And we understand what they sold to fund their purchase of that.

38:06And then we also look at when people are selling that token that they might, you know, just run up a $10,000 win.

38:12And they’re one of the top holders when they’re selling that token or as they’re starting to sell that token off, what are they rotating into?

38:19Um, and so if you like really zoom out and you’ll see this in like a lot of our, our like branding of the company, but it’s, it’s like thinking about the world in a galaxy system, right? Like you’re going from one galaxy to the next is like blockchain to blockchain.

38:34And then within it, you have this whole ecosystem of, you know, uh, planets, which might be different projects, et cetera, but you are, it’s really just kind of a hot potato jumping around and understanding, okay, well, these, this bundle of three wallets, we see them buying, selling this and buying the next thing.

38:53We, we don’t, I don’t know. I know nothing about them on socials.

38:56I know nothing about their telegram groups or what they’re doing, but I know that there are signs on the blockchain because of activity, um, that, Hey, there’s, there will be money rotating out of this token.

39:09The top’s probably in, attention’s done.

39:11It’s getting, it’s not going to be pushed anymore. It’s going to another place.

39:14Um, and this is nothing novel.

39:17Like this, this is more like you’ve, you’re going up against as a trader, you have to understand you’re going up against companies with a hundred million dollar to quarter, you know, quarter billion dollar war chest that are market making, they are back running you.

39:33They are, uh, I mean, there are in every sense of the word you got, you are the dumbest player in the room. If a lot of people look at KOLs and they’re like, yeah, they’re, they’re the only winning cause like they’re, you know, they’re dumping on everybody.

39:46Yeah. They, they just have attention on them.

39:47But I can assure you, even Frank and Rasmur and all these other guys who, you know, have all these copy traders and people that are buying what they buy are running into the, the, you know, the quants that are like, Hey, we can make.

40:00A quarter million dollars a day playing this meme coin game because we’re just we have better infrastructure.

40:06We know where things are going and we can’t even spot when the KOL sidewallets are doing stuff because even though they think they’re smart, there’s a pattern that we can recognize.

40:15Right. Yeah. I mean, listen, like that, I think, again, that this this is not my game, but I think, you know, you understand the dynamics of this really well because you’re building something around it.

40:26But, yeah, I listen, I think any advantage you can help give a trader because, like, I’ve been on like I went on FOMO.

40:35I hadn’t I’ve had an account since February or whatever. And I went on FOMO and I put the same trade on in LUTE.

40:42I think, like, maybe an hour or two earlier because you guys integrated Quotrons much earlier than FOMO did.

40:51But, like, you know, because I’m like messing with these things, just kind of just see, like, you know, what is it that people are doing?

40:57But, like, it’s just like it’s funny because, like, there’s no in FOMO outside of like knowing your position, like seeing like what they purchased in on their account wallet on FOMO.

41:10Like, I can’t see anything else. There’s like no analytics.

41:12And I get like that’s kind of like maybe like what makes the app so compelling is because there’s not much there’s not you don’t have the like analysis paralysis that comes with like a ton of variation.

41:27Right. Like one of the reasons why I think Chipotle did so well so fast was because it was very easy.

41:33Right. You can go down the line like with all the different combinations.

41:37There’s probably like whatever thousands, tens of thousands of combinations that you can get of something from there.

41:43But if it was like, oh, choose one of five, choose one of three, choose one of four and all those types of things, it just makes it a little easier to to like make a decision.

41:54Right. And so I think that like but on the flip side of that is when you make it easier to make a decision, you don’t get all the information that you might need to like make money.

42:03Right. And so that’s what I think is really interesting about what you guys are doing.

42:07OK, so I know I know we’re comparing Chipotle to financial decisions here.

42:15You know, there’s this like insane take that it was like the most important thing about a token and whether or not you should buy it is looking at who the holders are.

42:25And it made me it made me cringe so much because, you know, what happened to fundamentals?

42:31What happened to actually looking at token understanding like, hey, this is there’s value here.

42:36And maybe, you know, to an extent I get that mean coins, there is no fundamental.

42:41Right. Like there is no revenue to, you know, dog coin or to any of these other ones that are just obscene.

42:53But, you know, what is that? Is that good for the ecosystem?

42:57Is that good for people that are trying to make real financial returns?

43:01Because we’ve talked a ton about the patience of like not not rushing in, only having to make a few trades a year.

43:07And this is just a such a different game that it’s like people are just like, hey, like, do you want to send it?

43:13All right, I’ll throw I’ll throw a thousand dollars in.

43:15So, OK, I agree with you. Right. Like what but what you’re talking about is a fundamental decision and a fundamental investment that gets made and the time frame anywhere from whatever, a couple of days, a couple of months, a couple of years, whatever, long term.

43:31And like mean coins where it’s like, all right, like this thing might have a life cycle of an hour.

43:36Right. And I don’t like the mean coin thing, which is why I generally stay away.

43:41I don’t necessarily understand it all that well. It doesn’t make sense to me.

43:46But I think when you look at and I I wrote a article about this yesterday on my ex of like you just have to see like all these things is like if crypto is one massive casino, we know that like at this point in time with the AI coming, the permanent underclass, I have to escape the permanent underclass.

44:05People feel no matter what, no matter how much money you make. And I say this with certainty because I remember I was having lunch with an MD at a major Wall Street bank a couple of months ago.

44:16And the guy probably makes. He definitely makes in New York, right? And this is New York as well.

44:21Yeah, New York City. Right. In makes it, you know, seven figures a year and has a family, obviously.

44:31And he’s sitting there and he feels like he doesn’t make enough. Right.

44:34Like it’s just like, you know, we’re talking about, you know, how much it costs to go out now or, you know, to get on a good meal, to get a cup of coffee.

44:42Like I think the last time I was in New York, I spent nine dollars on like a blank street coffee.

44:48I mean, it was delicious, but like I also had to wait in line for 20 minutes.

44:52But like, you know, it is what it is. But like, you know, this.

44:55So this is not just a feeling that I think people at lower wealth tiers feel.

45:01I think no matter how much money you have, because it’s all relative. Right.

45:05Like if you love like let’s use like the Knicks game, the Knicks finals as an example. Right.

45:12Like if you love the Knicks and all of a sudden like you’re like, all right, like I’ll go to a Knicks game.

45:17I’ll spend five thousand dollars. And in the past, five thousand dollars would get you like four seats. Right.

45:23And then this finals run five thousand dollars. You were lucky if that got you in the three hundreds or four hundreds level.

45:31Like there’s I think there’s a couple four hundred sections, but like that would have got you in like the three hundreds for five grand.

45:37But now all of a sudden you’re like, OK, cool. Like I’m willing to spend five thousand dollars on this in the past.

45:43Like that would have gotten me like down on the floor. Like I could, you know, throw I could throw something at the player if I wanted to.

45:48And now that puts me up in the nosebleeds. Right. And so it’s like there’s like no matter where you are on on the on the wealth spectrum, you’re feeling it.

46:00Right. And so then. OK, so then because of that, maybe you feel like you need to take on a little extra risk. Right.

46:06Maybe you take on a little more margin on your stock positions. Maybe, you know, you play slots more.

46:12You play gamble more. Right. You play more sports betting.

46:15And that’s why I think we’ve like seen the rise of, you know, Polymarket Koushi.

46:20But then also that explains like kind of meme coins as well. Right.

46:23Of like, oh, I want to hit that thousand X.

46:26Well, I think it’s even like the fuel and the fire of that is, yes, people are like, I want I need to make more money.

46:32I want to like make more money. But then you have and I had like I could go on a crazy rant here, which is I had I had a go on.

46:40I had a good friend reach out the last like three days in a row and he was like, you know, I hate myself.

46:47All my friends are up like six figures over the last week.

46:51They keep hitting win after win. I keep losing.

46:55You know, I was I had made good trades before.

46:58I’m like literally grinding my port down.

47:01And, you know, my my reply to him was like, cool, like figure out what you’re doing, change it.

47:05And he could not get over the fact that everybody that he considers a friend, all of his peers, the entire industry are all posting these big P&Ls.

47:14And so he’s like, I have to keep clicking. I have like I have to buy everything.

47:18I can’t miss the next one. And so, like, I think the number one thing that is like it’s frustrating me, even as a trading platform CEO, is you don’t have to you should not be looking at other people’s P&Ls and having that be a validation of yourself.

47:34I think that is the most flawed human psychology ever.

47:37I think that’s that’s like classic human nature. Right.

47:41Like, I mean, I’m sure you’ve felt it.

47:44I have definitely felt it at times when I’m like, oh, man, like all my friends crushed it.

47:50And I’m here like an idiot holding the bag or like I didn’t crush it.

47:55And like I had the same opportunity and this and that.

47:57But like so one is like I would say one, first off, don’t believe everything you see on social media.

48:03Right. Because like I definitely think even people posting screenshots and whatnot, like, I don’t know.

48:09I think like it doesn’t always tell the truth.

48:11So but like I think for like your own sanity, like like I’ve said this a bunch and listen, I think as a human, like I kind of fall for it to sometimes to you compare.

48:23Right. You compare your P&L to other people that were in the same trades like, oh, you traded it better than me.

48:28You can only I would say like the only things to do is, hey, like I’m happy my homie made money, you know, at some point my time will come.

48:37I just have to keep on doing the things that I do to make money and you don’t force stuff.

48:42I’d say like so when I moved to PR, one of the biggest unlocks for my trading was the fact that because I had a lower tax rate, I didn’t feel the need.

48:58Like I knew that I could literally make 50 percent less money and I would make the same amount of money after tax.

49:04Right. About around that.

49:06Sure. And I knew that because of that, I could be more patient.

49:10Whereas when I was like trading under a New York domicile, I just like I was like, dude, like I have to like make these trades.

49:18I have to make a certain amount of money every month.

49:20And sometimes I forced trades that didn’t need to be there.

49:23And then I was able to be much more patient when I moved here because I was like, oh, yeah, like I’m already like 50 percent ahead just by being here.

49:31So I don’t need to like I don’t love a trade.

49:34I can sit it out. I can wait.

49:36And that led to me making better trades, to me being able to take on more size, to being more patient and all of these things.

49:43This is all like definitely a psychological thing.

49:46Right. There’s you have to kind of like work yourself through it.

49:49But I think you have to understand that when your time will come and as long as you’re doing the right things, like the things that, you know, right.

49:58Like, oh, man, this is just like.

50:00Reminded me of a tweet to talk about that time I wasn’t making money, right?

50:07And, you know, like I think you wrote something and I responded.

50:12I’ll go on my little story here.

50:15But like I remember, man, I don’t know the exact year, but it was over 10 years ago.

50:23And I remember at one point, I think it was either a 12-month or an 18-month stint where I couldn’t make money.

50:28And I had like a big mortgage on my place and living in New York, like obviously like expenses piling up and I was like cutting into savings.

50:39I ended up having to borrow money from a buddy of mine in order to like kind of like build my stack back up.

50:45And the like the thing that like that kind of like I remember sitting there and being like, man, I have no like marketable skills.

50:54Like I mean, obviously I could find a job, but I wouldn’t be able to find a job at the salary that I was accustomed to making, that I wanted to make.

51:05And so I was like, fuck, like what am I going to do?

51:07And then I was just like, did my system stop working?

51:10Because like as a trader, this like – the thing that always scared me is if like my system stopped working, right?

51:16And if it stopped working, like I would have to find and adapt another system, but how long would that take until I found a way to be consistently profitable again?

51:23And so I remember being like, man, like maybe like my system doesn’t work.

51:28But then like I looked around and like I had a – I ran a group with my business partner and I don’t know.

51:34I think at that point we had like 10 traders and every single one of them were profitable except for me.

51:39So I’m like the people that I taught how to trade, my system, were making money.

51:44So it wasn’t the system that wasn’t working.

51:47It was me internally something like I wasn’t seeing things properly.

51:51I was taking on unnecessary risks in certain ideas or whatever.

51:57And I read – I read this book called Becoming Superhuman, which was about flow states.

52:03And then I went to my first Tony Robbins event, which is like all about like flow state management for the most part.

52:12Tony – like and literally I came back from the Tony – I went to his first event and then I went to I think Date with Destiny, which is like one of his like main things.

52:23And the day after I came back from that event, from that weekend, I think I had my best trading day in like five years, like literally the day after.

52:35Yeah, and like it was like – it was sick, you know, obviously best trading day in five years.

52:41And yeah, like it was just – but like the thing is like it was all in here.

52:44It was all in my head. Like I was doing – but I wasn’t – I just like wasn’t in the right mentality framework because I’m like everybody around me is making money except for me.

52:56I’m the one that’s losing money. And then like that negativity begets more negativity.

52:59Well, it’s not even your own – it’s not even your own self talking to you.

53:03It’s letting other people’s like projections of like – maybe not specifically in that case.

53:09But like I feel like there are traders right now who are like reading the timeline and, you know, they’re like – they can hear the other trader being like, oh, damn, like you suck at trading.

53:19And they’re like, oh, but like we’re friends – like they’re like I have to validate myself.

53:22I have to get the number up. I have to get a win. I got to – if I don’t, I’m going to like become, you know, not relevant in crypto Twitter anymore.

53:31And people see these deals going around.

53:33Like we got FOMO and Pump throwing money like insane to every trader and content creator right now.

53:40And so I get it.

53:42I totally understand how you can easily just like look in the mirror and be like, fuck, like it’s GG’s, man.

53:48Like it’s over.

53:50But like you – it’s only over if you mentally allow it to be over.

53:54And it’s not an easy thing to like eat dirt and eat nails and be like, fuck you.

53:59I’m going to figure this out. I’m going to get through this. Yeah, listen, like I said this a ton, right?

54:07Trading is hard enough, right?

54:09It’s hard enough. You have to come in. You have to make money every day. You have to, you know, find that money in the market, extract it, and go home.

54:17And you have other people trying to take the money from you, right?

54:20And so it’s like it’s hard enough even on its own to add in that layer of complexity of, hey, comparing yourself to others.

54:29It just like – it just makes it that much harder because it’s like it’s a very difficult game.

54:33And just because you put in the time and the effort doesn’t mean that you’re guaranteed success, right?

54:39Like that was one thing I learned. You’re owed nothing. You’re owed nothing. Yeah. That was the one thing I learned early in my career because I think like I was always like a good student in school.

54:47Like I worked hard. I was able to do things, complete things like if, you know, whatever was required, I would do it and I’d get the A.

54:55But like, you know, trading is just very different.

54:58There were times I remember early in my career, it’s like I lost money one day and I’m like I want to sit there and like rip through charts and like understand things more and do more work and all this shit.

55:07And like honestly, like the best thing that I could do at that moment was literally just turn off my computer, step outside, and call it a day, right, and just go for a walk and just like clear my head and then come back tomorrow or come back, you know, a couple days later, right?

55:23Like, you know, like that to me is like probably one of the hardest things is like knowing when to step away, to clear your head and not always being like, oh, this means I should work harder.

55:32Sometimes it just means you should just like take a moment to yourself, recollect yourself, and then you can get back on the grind, right, with a clear head, right?

55:41And so like for me during that period when like I couldn’t make money, I was like, you know, like again, every day I’m like trying to force it.

55:49I’m trying to force it. And then finally when, you know, like I had like the right mentality, the right mindset, I was in a good flow state, you know, like the things just started clicking, right?

56:01And so I think it’s like the same thing.

56:03No matter what asset you’re trading, I think this applies to meme coins, to crypto, to stocks, all these things, right?

56:11So yeah.

56:13Yeah. Yeah. And also if you step away, don’t come back from the step away and be like, oh, shit, I’ve missed like 100X.

56:20Like that, you’re coming back with the wrong mentality immediately.

56:24Yeah, no, I agree. I think you have to be okay with like leaving money on the table, right?

56:28There’s always going to be somewhere to make money, right?

56:30They always say there’s a bull market somewhere, right?

56:33Like even like today, you know, I see semis are getting crushed today.

56:38The market’s getting crushed and Bitcoin’s strong, right?

56:42So. Yeah. No, I mean, Sony was joking me and they’re like, it’s been a bear market.

56:47There’s been no way to make money for like the last six months, eight months, even a year, you know, trading.

56:56And I like put my head down and I was like, yeah, yeah, there has, it’s called Pokemon cards.

57:01Like literally, like there’s another market.

57:03Like you just got to think about, like there’s a market anywhere, right?

57:06Um, and the cool thing is everything has become tradable on like one account.

57:13Like you want to do prediction markets. Like right now, so, you know, on Polymarket, I guarantee you there’s a prediction market here that you can make, you know, 50 extra money or 30 extra, or, you know, even 10 extra money right now because it’s mispriced.

57:27And if you go put in the time and, you know, find the right niche or find the right subject matter that you can research and actually understand the outcome of, there’s a win there.

57:38The same thing applies to the stock market right now.

57:41There’s a token, there’s a, there’s a stock out there that nobody is even as CNBC has never mentioned.

57:46And it’s going to do a hundred X over the next 12 months.

57:49And it might not even get mentioned by anybody else, but it’s, you know, it’s positioning is just the more caps is priced and they have something coming or, uh, the, the world is going to move in that direction.

58:01It’s going to hit. So there’s always opportunity. That’s, uh, that’s a good news for you as a trader in the, in the semis.

58:08You know, I don’t know if we want to pull up the chart here or anything.

58:11Um, what, what do you got your eye on right now?

58:16So MU trade is hitting.

58:19Or it, yeah, so it’s down today.

58:21Yeah. It’s a, listen, it was, I, I think, I, I think I top ticked it yesterday when I tweeted out, it’s above a thousand and it’s down.

58:27It’s at nine 40 right now.

58:29Uh, are you sharing my screen right now? I am sharing your screen. Okay, cool. So, um, some weakness today, I think across the board in all semis, uh, in all the AI trade is a little weaker today.

58:40Um, I think from what I saw this morning, it seems like what people are saying is that the second, it’s the second derivative slowdown.

58:49Um, uh, anthropic numbers is what is like leading to the cause of weakness.

58:53Right. So it’s like, even though growth is really good, that growth has like slightly slowed down.

58:59So there are people who are trying to use that as like a sentiment gauge.

59:03Um, again, I don’t know if I necessarily like agree with that per se.

59:08Cause also, again, I just think that like the AI trade, I think we’re going so much higher.

59:14I do want to say now, and I’m, I’m doing a, a walk back on space X.

59:22I want to, I want to buy space X.

59:25Here at one 42. So when I was like, when I was like, I was saying, I want to buy at one 15.

59:31You’re like, I’d wait for 80. I didn’t buy. Yeah. Yeah. Well, here’s the thing is things changed.

59:36Right. In my opinion, things changed.

59:38And so, um, at one 10, one 15, Grokbot was not out and now Grokbot’s out.

59:48And I think Grokbot’s really, really good.

59:50Give me, give me the Grokbot full case.

59:52Cause I saw that. And to me, it was a non-event.

59:55I mean, I just think the form of it is great.

1:00:00You don’t have to, like, you literally just, like, it’s, like, plug and play. And I basically have a rock bot for each of the things that I, like, my subjects that I want to, like, focus on. So then I’ll go to that rock bot. So, for instance, like, I have an Abale rock bot. I have a health one. I have a trading one. Like, all these different things where, like, I go to that guy and I just talk to it.

1:00:23And the thing I like about it more than, like, the other ones. So, like, I’m no longer really, like, I’m no longer really working in the CLI at this point. Like, I’m, I’d say 90% of my AI interactions happen on rock bot. And this is, like, within a week. I also have a lot of fatigue around trying new stuff. Because every time you try a new business or whatever, you got to, like, reset it up.

1:00:50Yeah. So, like, the thing I liked about rock bot is, like, I didn’t really have to set it up. It was just kind of plug and play. I installed it on my Mac mini. I know these things are in the cloud. So, it’s probably even more seamless if you don’t have the setup that I have. And I think my setup has made it a little more complicated for me. But, like, it works for me in the sense that if maybe in a month or two something better comes out, I can, like, plug and play into that.

1:01:14But I think rock bot is really good. And I saw Gavin Baker put out a tweet, I think, yesterday or this morning around how, like, he thinks rock bot is, like, the chat GBT moment for, like, agents, most people, and that his personal usage of agents has 100x. And I tend to agree with that.

1:01:34Like, and so, but I don’t, so wait, you are saying rock bot ratios, like, co-work.

1:01:44I, well, I mean, I like co-work for, here’s something on my computer I want you to do, right?

1:01:51Right. Okay, yeah. Like, like, if I’m, like, for instance, like, my computer on my laptop is really slow. So, I’ve been, like, trying to co-work it to, like, stop being, to stop freezing, right?

1:02:01Like, fix this, right? And so, but when I’m, like, trying to do things of, like, let’s say my health monitoring, right?

1:02:09Like, I monitor my workouts and all this stuff, like, what supplements I should be taking, all this stuff.

1:02:13I am now talking directly to Brock on the Brock bot app, right? Because one, here’s a couple things I like. One, it is good or not. I’m not coding, right?

1:02:25And even if I was coding, because it’s fun, because it’s on my Mac mini, I could just say, spin up a codex or spin up a cloud code and run it, right? Do this instructor, right?

1:02:37So, I can, like, tell it to do that. And it’s just, like, it’s just good. And I think for, like, and I’m a more technical user, but, like, where I think this starts to become really interesting is for non-technical people that it’s just, like, an easy interface.

1:02:53Like, the setup was very easy. I feel like it’s almost to the point where I could, like, if I could give this to, like, my mom and she would, like, understand it if she actually had a use case for it.

1:03:06You know what I mean? Like, it’s just very seamless and easy. I can’t really, I can’t put my finger on it other than the fact that, like, I found it really enjoyable. I think the thing that I like is that it’s smart enough and it is very fast in that, in its responses.

1:03:24Hmm. And so, like, even, like, I found even before GrokBot came out, I was using Grok on the CLI for, like, almost, like, personal assistant type things, right? Anything with coding, I would be, like, I’m going to do codex.

1:03:39I kind of stopped using Fable because I felt like Fable, even though it was very capable, it just, like...

1:03:46If you use it on the wrong task, you’re screwed up.

1:03:48Yeah, like, it would just, like, guardrail me down to Sonnet or whatever it was, Opus.

1:03:52It would guardrail me down to Opus.

1:03:56And then all of a sudden, I’m just like, well, why am I even using this, right?

1:03:59So then I started using codex more on all things, like, coding development type of things.

1:04:05But on all things, like, hey, check the status of this server or check the status of this thing that’s running.

1:04:11I was using Grok because it’s so fast and it gives me an answer so quickly.

1:04:15Interesting. So I think that’s really valuable, right? Because I don’t want to wait five minutes to be like, hey, why isn’t this VPS responding, right?

1:04:24It’s, like, it’s an easy thing to answer.

1:04:26I don’t need, like, codex 5.6 on it.

1:04:29Oh, yeah. I know I asked something to Claude the other day and it was, like, doing research.

1:04:34I was like, no, no, no. This is, like, a literal...

1:04:37This is a 30-second... This is an eight-word question.

1:04:39This should literally be an instantaneous answer of, like, yes or no.

1:04:43And so I think that’s... I waited 45 seconds for a fucking yes.

1:04:47So that, to me, is what I find really interesting about Grok.

1:04:50And then added to that the fact that, one, they are now in my...

1:04:55I consider them, like, in the race, not frontier, but, like, their-ish.

1:05:02They, like... I haven’t connected it to my ex yet, but, like, you can connect it to your ex.

1:05:06And, like, it’s part of, like...

1:05:08It doesn’t, like, call the API, so there’s no added cost there.

1:05:11So it’s almost, like, a way to be like, all right, I can now, like...

1:05:13And I saw some people are doing cool things with, like, their GrokBots and ex and almost, like, creating, I think, curated feeds on there, which I think is really interesting.

1:05:21I want to mess with that.

1:05:23But then also, like, obviously, like, it’s Elon, and he’s, like, securing a bunch of energy and compute and, like, all...

1:05:30Like, he has, like, all the things set up for, like, XAI to, like, be a real contender, right?

1:05:39Yeah, I think... But I think X as a total takes...

1:05:41It was starting to take over. Like, I see that vision of, like, all right, the most used app in the world is X in the next couple years.

1:05:49Like, it makes sense.

1:05:50Right. But I guess, like, I try to take that with a grain of salt because, like, maybe we think that because that’s where we’re most active, right?

1:05:58Like, I... You know what I mean? Like, it’s, like, the same thing of, like, traders are new celebrities.

1:06:02Like, yeah, of course, we want to think that because, like, we’re all traders.

1:06:05So, like, you know, you want to be a celebrity, right?

1:06:08Being a celebrity is cool, right? And so I just don’t know if we’re in our own echo chamber, so I can’t sit there.

1:06:14Like, I hope X takes over because that’s my biggest platform.

1:06:17So, you know, that’s where I have the most followers, the most influence.

1:06:21I hope that’s what happens, but I don’t know if that happens, right?

1:06:23I don’t know. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. But I will say that, like, on the back of this, I’m like, yeah, like, I want to buy SpaceX.

1:06:33Where are you bidding though? Okay, so let’s be very clear on bid levels here for my sake.

1:06:39I would look to buy into weakness, right?

1:06:43So the fact that, you know, it’s doing this, it’s, like, holding up while, like, the rest of, like, the AI complex is getting clobbered is very bullish.

1:06:53I would like to, I guess maybe I’d like to buy it around this, what is this, the 20-day?

1:06:58I think it’s the 20-day. It’s probably the 20-day. Yeah. The 20-day moving average, around 130, if you could get it.

1:07:06I mean, I, like, I’m just, like, I now am, like, all right, cool, like, I think this.

1:07:12And, like, it’s funny too, because, like, I thought about, I think, like, after the last time that we were talking about it on stream, and you’re like, oh, I’d like to buy some here.

1:07:21And I was like, no, I’d wait to 80. I think I moved it up to, like, ah, I’d wait till 90.

1:07:25And then, like, literally, I think, like, the next day, I was like, ah, man, should I just buy a little bit here, just in case?

1:07:32And I didn’t. But that, like, that was kind of, like, one of those, like, trust your gut type things when, like, I just didn’t listen to my gut, and I should have, because I think that would have been, like, around the high teens around there.

1:07:43But, like, now it’s, like, I don’t know.

1:07:45Again, like, it changes, right? And I think this is part of being a trader, right?

1:07:48Is, like, when new information comes out, all right, will there people, like, let’s say I were to buy it right here, right now. Are there people that got in at a better price than me?

1:07:56Sure. But they also probably were taking on more risk than I was, not even realizing it, right?

1:08:03And so, like, I’d much rather, when the story changes, your thesis has to change.

1:08:08And that’s kind of how I feel with this, where I’m now, like, all right, I would look to bid this at some point in the next, I don’t know, 60 days, right?

1:08:18Where, like, you know, maybe on a really big down day one day, Burry comes out, says he’s short, right? Like, cool, thanks. Like, that’s what he did with Nebius, right?

1:08:27He said, he’s, like, he’s shorting the weakness on it, caused a little more weakness, and I was able to buy some, load up on some calls, and then they blew out the numbers, right?

1:08:37And so it’s, like, the same type of thing.

1:08:39I’m not saying you need to run out and buy it right now.

1:08:41But, like, the story for me changed, you know?

1:08:45And, like, maybe, you know, I’m late.

1:08:48You definitely could have gotten better entries, but that’s fine, right?

1:08:50Like, that doesn’t necessarily mean the story is different.

1:08:53So it’s, like, you have to kind of trade to whatever it is, the style that you’re in.

1:08:57But, like I said, to me, it changed.

1:09:00Yeah, better entries, but, like, we didn’t have that information.

1:09:03If I knew that Grok was going to be this awesome two weeks ago when it was under 110, I would have been, like, yeah, like, let’s buy this hand over fist, right?

1:09:15Because it’s, like, this is very cool.

1:09:17But, yeah, so I don’t know. I’m, like, I’m much more inclined to be bullish, and I’m much more inclined to, like, buy this into a pullback. Because I even feel, like, the reason why I was, like, you had time is, like, okay, like, rockets, data centers in space, that’s, like, that’s more than, like, you know, 12 months away, 24 months away, right?

1:09:41And so it’s, like, I don’t need to be there that early.

1:09:43But now it’s, like, if they’re going to be, like, at, like, the frontier of the Pareto, the Pareto frontier, whatever it’s called, right?

1:09:51If they’re going to be, like, in that conversation, then all of a sudden, like.

1:09:56You know, if Anthropic and OpenAI are at a billion, a trillion and two trillion, like then how much is XAI worth if they’re like right on their tails, right?

1:10:06And like to go higher. So I don’t know, like that to me is very interesting. I would look to buy stuff into a, buy it into a pullback. When I do buy it, I’ll like tweet it out and talk about it. But yeah, that’s kind of, that’s kind of my thought process on that.

1:10:23So, I mean, I’m like, I’m looking at the right of your screen now. It is, is bad today. Yeah. It’s ugly.

1:10:31Well, listen, the, I think that like, I mean, AI like had like, the AI trade had like a massive run-up, right? Like it’s like from Leopold.

1:10:43Yeah, I was going to say from Leopold.

1:10:45Like, you know, it’s, it had a pullback and then whatever ran up. I, I don’t see this as like insanely bearish.

1:10:53You know, some people could see this as like a double top, but like also like, I mean, even here, when I said like reverse head and shoulders, like the, the right head of that, the right shoulder requires a pullback. Right.

1:11:07Right. So it’s like, you know, boom, hopefully. Right. And so I can see the draw, the drawing stays intact. Like there, there, there’s no invalidation here.

1:11:15We were expecting a pullback at some point.

1:11:17Yeah. So there’s that, like, I know like a couple of traders probably, I know some guys went short today, probably using like stops from like a day or two ago from the highs to be able to, to put the trade on.

1:11:31But yeah, man, like, I don’t know. I, I think this is like, I’m not necessarily concerned at this point. And I just think that like, again, we’ve had a couple of weeks at this point with no big AI news.

1:11:45And like, also like, I mean, I think somebody was talking about how we need more memory. Like they were like, like memory is still the bottleneck. And like Elon said like a hundred, like, yes, like I agree.

1:11:59And so it’s like, I don’t know, like the, the guys that are like boots on the ground are telling you what’s going on. And for some reason, people on wall street think they know better because like, oh, it’s been cyclical in the past.

1:12:12But the guys that are actually building this shit are telling you like, no, we, we don’t have enough of this. You know what I mean? So it’s like, I don’t know.

1:12:21Interesting. I still, I still like, again, I I’m still bullish. I still like, I’m not changing my position based on like any of the new incremental news that I see out there. Right. It’s just like, to me, this is like a healthy pullback after like a good run up. Right. Like even like, if you were to do this, this line, right. Like, it’s just like, it’s still, it’s still can pull back a little bit and still be fine.

1:12:47Right.

1:12:50Well, so I’m obviously, like I said, watching for, for good entry here. SpaceX now more on my radar. Now that I’ve gotten the blessing from, from you to, to bid. I’m curious, you know, in the rest of the market, what else has your attention? Anything else you’re looking at? Obviously, my, my bids over the last few days have been mostly crypto related.

1:13:17Um, lighter still seems to be one that I think with Robinhood and then, uh, a lot of these CTFC, uh, kind of like rumors of them getting approval and getting some of the blessing makes it such a, just, again, a very interesting trade compared to Hyperliquid, um, that I’ve added some more position there, but I am waiting for like a big, bigger pullback towards like 215, 220 to buy in there.

1:13:48Um, and I’m still like pump still. It seems like such an obvious trade. I’m not adding it. Like I’ve, I’ve, I think I’ve taken out a decent amount of that position. I’m not adding any more right now. Um, just because it feels like I hate it.

1:14:05I hate it when everybody’s like, this is such an easy trade. This is the trade. Go take the trade. Like when consensus is so, so vocal on the timeline, I usually am like, all right, I’m willing to, I’m willing to miss out on this one.

1:14:17Um, just, just like there’s something about zigging when other people zag to in the market that I enjoy and I feel comfortable about. Um, I don’t beat like the lemming trade where it’s like, Oh, the whole timeline’s like bullish on this. So I need to like continue being bullish about it.

1:14:34Um, yeah, I mean, listen, that pump trade was great. So, you know, yeah, no, I, no, don’t get me wrong. I crushed that. I think that is one of my best trades in a while, actually.

1:14:45Um, I mean, I basically bottom ticket with 10 X leverage all the way up to, I mean, I was out 26 to 27. So I got out a little early, but, um, yeah, I’m, I was not complaining.

1:14:59Yeah, no, listen, I, that there’s been like, you know, a couple of things that, um, I’ve been like looking at and like, I think to me, the on-chain stuff, I feel like has really heated up in the last, um, obviously couple of weeks.

1:15:14And that’s, that’s, I think the most interesting thing about that is the fact that it’s been able to happen while Bitcoin is where it is. Right. And it’s like Bitcoin hasn’t been running. It’s been range balanced slash weak.

1:15:27And so the fact that these things are happening on chain without Bitcoin running is, I think, hyper bullish.

1:15:36Yeah, no, no, for sure. But I also think we also need to understand that there’s a lack of, because of that lack of like perps activity and people are like, I need to make money somehow.

1:15:49Like, just like you were like, Hey, I had 18 months where I wasn’t making money. There are a lot of perpetrators right now who are like, yeah, my bread and butter was Bitcoin, ETH, or soul.

1:15:59And, you know, we’re barely seeing them move 1% a day or they’re, you know, it’s very unexpected. It’s just this ranging motion for each of them.

1:16:08Moving, you know, like ETH has just moved like $100 range for like the last month, hasn’t really done anything.

1:16:16It’s hard to, if you’re a perpetrator to like really, really crush it when that’s happening.

1:16:24Yeah, no, I agree. Like, I mean, listen, all traders need vol, right?

1:16:28Like that, that is a, that is a disgusting chart there for July to August. Like it’s just flat.

1:16:33I mean, but like, look, this is like, this, this looks, to me, this looks very nice.

1:16:39Like bullish? Yeah. Like if I were to get long ETH here, I would probably like use that low as my stop.

1:16:46Oh, this guy is, this guy is ETH’s number one maxi here. FWA saving ETH, buying ETH, NOTs.

1:16:54Who, me? Yeah. I mean, this chart looks good.

1:16:58It does look good. I don’t know. This chart to me looks better than Bitcoin.

1:17:03Bitcoin, Bitcoin gives me ETH.

1:17:05Yeah. I think the ETH chart looks, looks stronger than Bitcoin in my opinion.

1:17:09Yeah.

1:17:11Like, I just think you could probably like, you can get long ETH with like a little less risk.

1:17:17I don’t know.

1:17:19What’s Tao doing? Oh, I’d like for that. I’d like for that to, to bottom soon, please.

1:17:26Let’s see. Oil, oil’s taking back higher.

1:17:29Iran, Iran, no, nothing, nothing getting better there.

1:17:33Rates are higher. Prediction markets have had me thinking a lot.

1:17:38We have the Fed decision for September here starting to trend.

1:17:44It was, it was really strong up at 75%.

1:17:46We’re seeing a little bit of a dip there to where, if it were to continue, we’d be back towards 50, 50% on change or no change going into the next decision in September.

1:18:00And obviously, the whole Iran debacle continues.

1:18:07U.S. blockade stuff.

1:18:09I just, there’s no, there’s no end in sight there at all.

1:18:13Just, I think more, more military activity seems to be what, what Trump is threatening right now.

1:18:21Which, yeah, I think like, I don’t know.

1:18:23I think, so I think with regards to the markets right now, it’s seen like NVIDIA, I think reports next week. So I think that that’s what people will be watching there.

1:18:31I think rates is something people are watching, right?

1:18:35The stuff is what like I flagged last week, right?

1:18:38Is that if, if the yang, the yen dislocation continues to happen, then like, that’s going to start to affect markets, right? And I think rates are a little higher today.

1:18:49So that’s what’s affecting markets as well, as well as the anthropic stuff.

1:18:53But yeah, I mean, I, I don’t know.

1:18:57I, I, I, I kind of think that all eyes are on the Fed at Jackson Hole.

1:19:03Hopefully, you know, something comes out of there, or I think people are thinking something.

1:19:07Some sort of forward guidance will probably come out of there.

1:19:11And that will determine probably the direction of markets until the Fed comes out with their interest rate decision in September.

1:19:21So.

1:19:23A lot of, a lot of events that we need to pass through without any negativity here.

1:19:30I guess that that’s my view.

1:19:33Also, like, not for nothing, but we’re getting into the back half of August, which is, generally, like, outside of maybe the week between Christmas and New Year’s is like the deadest two weeks in the market.

1:19:45Yeah. Again, everybody’s in Hamptons, Euromaxing, wrapping up the final trips of the year.

1:19:52Yeah. But I’ll be here working.

1:19:54Gee, don’t you worry. I’m not going anywhere. I’ll be. I’m not going anywhere. I’m here working too, man. We got to find the next thing. We got a full port, you know?

1:20:00Well, I mean, you, I’ve been bidding a lot of stuff. Quotrons has been the one that like blew up. We had Seedfraze buying in. I’m buying that dip right now.

1:20:13Now, what else? Frong and Uniswap’s launchpad stuff on Robinhood have gotten out of, but look, anything that seems to have attention right now, and I think will have attention come back into it, I’m buying.

1:20:31And I like the innovation that the Quotrons, it seems fun. It seems exciting. I also think whenever Seedfraze is buying NFTs in bulk, it’s a good signal.

1:20:43And then I still think when I look at Robinhood, Ponds is a good trade because I think people are going to come back and they’re going to launch tokens again and it’s going to take off.

1:20:53And just with FWA, I know there’s some weakness in today, but just as we heard, there is a very clear path to people wanting to come spin.

1:21:03And if you see this first NFT project that launches there, win, just as the human psychology has been for a lot of these projects who, you know, we saw people go launch on Abstract and because Abstract was super hot.

1:21:17And then we saw, you know, now we’re seeing Robinhood, Robinhood chain is super hot.

1:21:21So a lot of people are like, all right, I’ll launch my NFT project there.

1:21:25Um, what, what happens if, if, you know, the fair launches on FWA go well, a lot of people are like, yeah, I mean, that makes sense.

1:21:33I want to be there. And this mechanic does part of the marketing for me, right?

1:21:38Like the whole FWA community is going to be like, Oh, new launch, new launch chain link communities.

1:21:43Like, Hey, we got another launch. There’s going to be a ton of transactions today.

1:21:46Like, it’s going to like, do you, I can see that taking off.

1:21:50That’s why I look at that. I’m like, that’s, that’s a bull case for me to finally like buy into the token here.

1:21:56Um, I will forever regret not getting exposure down at like a four or five, $6 million range that, that I regret.

1:22:04I mean, I regret not buying more down there. I think I only bought like two or two or three ETH down there.

1:22:09I wish I bought. But you’re looking good. You’re, you’re up on that trade. You’re up 20, 20 ETH. So.

1:22:15Um, I’m up, I’m doing well on that. Not that much, but yeah.

1:22:21Yeah. I mean, even like last weekend I was buying into the pullback, uh, over the weekend, like 20 mil, 21, 22 or something.

1:22:29It’s just like, I don’t know, man. I think that like, we’re just so early in that it’s just so cheap, you know, in the article I wrote yesterday, it’s like, I, the thing I like the most about gotcha is like, if you think again, if you think of all of this, as casino games, meme coins, or maybe like roulette, right. You can win big, but you can lose big very quick.

1:22:51I think the gotchas are, you know, it’s like the house edge is way smaller. Right. So it’s like users don’t lose money as quickly. Right.

1:22:59Why do people like playing blackjack? Cause the house edge is the smallest. Right.

1:23:02And so you sit there and you play that, you know, it is a little bit of game of skill. Um, but the luck isn’t necessarily like stacked against you the way it is other games.

1:23:12And I think like, it’s like the same thing with gotcha, right. If you lose, you know, 5%, you know, 10%, whatever, you’re like still in the game. You still have most of your stack, but if you lose a hundred percent of your stack overnight, cause you went to, you went to sleep that night, it’s tough, man. Cause then you got to reload, you got to reload the card or whatever.

1:23:31So it’s like, I find it more interesting. Again, if you view it all as like a casino game, um, the, like the ones where, cause like, again, right. Like why is pumpkin running? Right. Cause it’s like, all right. Volume starting to come up. You can own the, like pump is like, you own the casino, right. You own the meme coin factory. Right. So you get exposure to meme coins without having to trade meme coins. And to me, it’s like the same thing where, why is it that people are excited around collector’s crypt? Right. You can own that token.

1:24:01It’s like the best on-chain proxy that exists. Right. Like, cause courtyard, um, bigger company, right. Been around longer, but like, there’s no token and they don’t plan on doing a token. So there’s no like necessarily, there’s no excitement on crypto Twitter around it. Cause like, there’s no way to get exposure. Right. Like again, I think collector’s crypt is interesting. It’s just like, I personally think it’s a little too expensive. If it pulled back, I’d be, I’d be happily buying it. I just, I can’t get there.

1:24:29And so I think FWA is really cheap, especially when you compare it to others. And again, but I think the whole gotcha mechanic, uh, gamified shopping is a huge vertical that I think is going to explode that, um, I think crypto is kind of setting itself up for it. Right. Cause even like, I think we’re starting to see, um, it’s interesting path put out, um, a tweet yesterday around how he started, you know, he was a big Pokemon bull very early.

1:24:57Yeah. And he said, he was starting to sell some of his collection into a lot of this strength. And, you know, one of the, the tail risks that he highlighted is the fact that, you know, there’s, we’re going to see an increase in fakes because these things are so valuable and that will like increase supply, especially if you can’t tell the difference between real one and a fake one is. Um, and like not everybody will have that, you know, expertise and being able to do that.

1:25:23And that adds tail risk. Right. And so, uh, one of the things that NFTs, like, you know, like actually protect against, and we know this is you have that provenance, right? Like if I were to make a fake, uh, pudgy, you know, that that’s not the real pudgy and it’s not worth as much, right? Because it’s all on chain. So I think things are lining up, you know.

1:25:49It, it, it could get, it could get crazy here. And that, and that’s my sole prediction and outlook is things get really crazy compared to what we see right now.

1:26:00Agreed. Agreed. I, I mean, I, when that happens, I don’t know, probably back half of the year. Like, I don’t like, you know what I mean?

1:26:07But, you know, I don’t, I don’t think it happens like next 30, 45 days for sure. Um, but I do think that if you were to look at kind of how things are setting up, it really only takes like one or two big, like blockbuster launches or one, you know, one main, one thing to go mainstream.

1:26:30And it’s like, all right, game’s back on, right? We’re running it back from, from 21. Um, I will say meme coin trading has certainly become more acceptable mainstream over the last, uh, couple of weeks here.

1:26:46We’re seeing more people. And I think it’s just the UGC content that pump fun and FOMO are pumping out right now. I wish people could understand the volume that it is at.

1:26:56It is insane. The amount of money that you’re spending is insane. Um, but I think it’s good. It’s good for the industry on the flip side though. Is it, is it good for the industry? Because like, okay, cool.

1:27:08They’re onboarding people that are losing a hundred percent of their stack in very quickly. Right. So it’s like, to me, it’s like, all right, great. You make some short term money. Right. Cause I, the reason why it’s working. And this is why my thesis around, you know, they did pump, uh, FOMO did a huge round, apparently.

1:27:25Like a couple of weeks, a couple of months ago. I’m sure what they did with the VCs is they’re like, look, this is, um, the content. They probably ran this thing as a test, the UGC content. They’re like, this is our, uh, ROAS. Right. This is how much we’re making this, how much we’re spending this, how much we’re making. And the numbers must’ve been incredible. And they’re like, okay, cool. We’re going to run this at scale.

1:27:46The problem is, in my opinion, is that like, dude, if somebody deposits money and loses their entire stack quickly, like how, like what’s the LTV of that customer? Right. Like, oh, the LTV zero at that point. Right. Like they’re, they’re gone.

1:28:02Yeah. Like I, yeah, they’re gone. Right. And so it’s like, and this is why like my thesis, like, this is why I think like last couple of years base didn’t necessarily, uh, list meme coins right away onto Coinbase.

1:28:15And I think probably maybe Robinhood probably does kind of the same thing is because they know kind of like, this is kind of what we saw with Binance. Right. Whereas like, as soon as something gets listed on Binance, like everybody sells, right. Cause you’re just waiting for that listing and you’re waiting for that as liquidity. So if you’re in the business, if you’re in the business of you make money off commissions, you don’t want people to lose all of their money very fast.

1:28:42Right. You, you want them to trade a ton of money over a long time. You, you, I mean, I know this, you want your customers to make money, right. In the best case scenario, they’re making money.

1:28:53Or if they lose money, you want them to lose money very slowly. Right. Like that, because they generate more commissions. If they lose money very quickly, they have no value to you long-term. Right. And so this is, and this is my concern around people being like, you just look at who’s holding the token and buy it.

1:29:10But if, but if, you know, 90% of the cases you’re buying into a token, cause other people are holding it and they have the intention of selling on you, you’re, you’re going to lose money.

1:29:22If you’re not early enough, you lose money. And, and then it becomes a, a quite literally a, just how, how early into a token can you get?

1:29:30And, and, you know, I, I think FOMO has to be looking at, to an extent, they don’t let pre bonded tokens be tradable.

1:29:40So every, every trader on FOMO is technically getting to tokens, you know, 50 K after they launch.

1:29:48Um, is that, that’s even kind of sending some people to the slaughter of like, I know there are launchers right now.

1:29:55We see it cause we’re, we’re studying what’s happening on chain.

1:29:58We’re like, hey, we’ll get a token bonded, keep it looking organic, we’ll run up to like 70k and then that’s, that’s, they’re just dumping it because they’re like, hey, now, now the FOMO people are in that couldn’t see this token or trade this token before.

1:30:10Right. Yeah, I mean, I agree. I mean, listen, I know we didn’t talk about it and I know we probably got to bounce in a minute or two. Like, this is what, you know, Ansem announced his launchpad, I think, yesterday, right? I think it’s a launchpad.

1:30:27Yeah, he launches up, Ansem launched a launchpad.

1:30:29Yeah, and so it’s like, you know, I read his article, I thought, you know, it was a curation platform, but like, and again, and I think TraderMain responded to his article with genuine questions.

1:30:43I thought they were very good because I was kind of thinking the same thing of like, okay, this is a curated platform, but you can buy your way to the top.

1:30:52So there’s not necessarily curation. It’s like kind of like the same thing that Deck Screener is, it’s just that you’re paying the Ansem ecosystem instead of Deck Screener.

1:31:02And like, I’m interested to see how it plays out. He obviously has a lot of attention.

1:31:09Yeah, I’m just but like, to that point is like, all to me, all it means is that like, if you’re like, well funded scammers, then like, you know, you could pay whatever the $100,000, like it’s worth it to make to make that investment.

1:31:23If you think you’re going to make more than that. Right. So it’s like, if you have the money to like, let’s say get to game the and again, I don’t know enough about it. And I’m sure he’s thought about it. Right. So I would love to see how it plays out.

1:31:37But if I was like, a well funded scammer, I would pay whatever it is to get to the top of the leaderboard, have it run up. And then you know, who knows off that 100 grand, you can make, I don’t know, a couple hundred grand, a couple million, like we see people that are rugging for, I don’t know, at 100k market cap.

1:31:56So like, you know, there, there’s going to be incentivization to, to run these things up, right, and utilize Ansem and the community as like exit liquidity, right. Or I don’t, I don’t know, I’m not, I don’t, I don’t know how any of these things work. But like, for me, like the game theory of it is like, if I had the money, then like, even better, because I don’t need to do 100 of these low cap ones, I can do like, a couple of these large ones, because I have the money to do it. Right. And so it’s going to be interesting to see how that plays out.

1:32:26But I think TraderMain had a couple of good questions that I had as well. And I think Ansem responded to some of them. But like, I think, again, you have to see the game theory of how it plays out. So I think it’s interesting. But like, we will see, you know, I do think like, the concept behind it is interesting in the sense that yeah, like, I’m sure he gets, I get a ton of inbound, I’m sure he gets like 100x the inbound that I get, you know, so this is a good way to kind of To kind of, what’s it called? Oh, my God, I’m throwing a blank on the name. But to like, get rid of a lot of like, grifters or whatever. Yeah, okay, put money in put money on the line. And then I’ll talk to you. Yeah. So we’ll see. Like, it’ll be interesting, right? Like, you know, maybe his launchpad launches other But it’s good. Like, it’s good. I know there are a lot of people saying like, Alright, no more launchpads. This is stupid. But again, the trading platform wars are producing innovation and people trying and building shit. And that is good for the end user. Because, you know, we don’t have companies just being stagnant and being like, Alright, I’ll take your fees. And, you know, 12 months of this, and I can retire. And I’ll never have to think about life again.

1:33:41I genuinely see every single platform, whether it is FOMO, loot, pump fun, bullpen, bullpen, Axiom, like, everybody is sitting here going, Alright, what are we doing next? What are we doing next? We got to fight, we got to get volume, we got to, we got to innovate, what do we, where do we see the market going?

1:33:57Um, and again, like, I’m, I’m like, in on the front line of this watching it happen. I think things just keep getting better for the end user. And it’s more more exciting stuff to come for sure. For sure.

1:34:13Alright, cool. G, another great show. To everybody tuned in today. Thank you for joining. We love to see it. We’ll catch you on the next one.

1:34:21Um, and yeah, we’ll, uh, we have our next guest for Thursday, actually selected already. We’ll announce that tomorrow.

1:34:29Um, yeah, for sure. Heavy hitter.

1:34:31Heavy, heavy hitter. I think it’ll be a good combo. Good combo.

1:34:34Yeah. Alright, guys. Well, thank you for tuning in. We’ll catch you on the next one.

1:34:37And, uh, we’ll, we’ll see you on Thursday. Peace.