# SpaceX Earnings Tonight, Tokenized Stocks Pushback, and Why Consumer Crypto Struggles

Full Port, Tuesday, October 20, 2026, 54:58 long. Hosted by gmoney and Hunter Orrell.

- Episode page: https://fullportshow.com/episodes/2026-10-20/
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABIJ3tcH_B4
- Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/hunter-orrell/episodes/SpaceX-Earnings-Tonight--Tokenized-Stocks-Pushback--and-Why-Consumer-Crypto-Struggles-e3qq9go
- Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/full-port/id6801220433
- This episode as JSON: https://fullportshow.com/data/episodes/2026-10-20.json

## Summary

SpaceX reports earnings tonight, and gmoney and Hunter Orrell break down what actually matters: Grok usage and AI adoption, not Starlink. Meta's numbers and hyperscaler CapEx could set the next move for neoclouds and chipmakers. They also ask whether the AI trade is over after a Korean neocloud IPO fell 30%, and whether the government would really backstop AI or whether Elon, Meta and Google would just step in if Anthropic or OpenAI ran short of capital.

Also on today's Full Port: Sophon shutting down and why consumer crypto is so hard, why IRL experiences gain value in an AI world, bots and fake KPIs, sites blocking AI agents, gmoney's Cloudflare trade, Bitcoin around $80K with rate-hike odds and the midterms ahead, Leopold levering up again, patience and discipline in trading, companies pushing back on tokenized stocks, and perps on Hyperliquid and Lighter.

Full Port is the modern finance show. gmoney and Hunter Orrell are live every Tuesday and Thursday at 10:30am ET.

## Calls

Every buy, sell or avoid the hosts made, in order, priced by Indeix when it was said. Moves are as of 2026-10-20 19:54 UTC.

- **S&P 500 ETF (SPY), neutral** at 6:38: "I think we’ll shop mostly into midterms and probably going to want to be on cash. I think there’s gonna be some discounts across the board." Market-wide: stay patient and hold cash into the midterms, expecting discounts to buy. $772.33 when it was said, −0.3% since, over weeks. [Call](https://fullportshow.com/calls/2026-10-20-04/)
- **Hyperliquid (HYPE), long** at 8:05: "I still like the thesis, um, on Hyperliquid, but we’ll get into perps in a bit here." Host remains bullish on Hyperliquid despite the drop from $100 to $80. $81.40 when it was said, −0.8% since, against it. [Call](https://fullportshow.com/calls/2026-10-20-05/)
- **SpaceX, long** at 27:08: "I kind of wanted to miss. I want things to be terrible because I’d love to buy more at a lower number." Host holds SpaceX ahead of earnings and would buy more on a miss; the other host has a small position built with Quotrons dividends. $147.63 when it was said, −0.9% since, against it. [Call](https://fullportshow.com/calls/2026-10-20-06/)
- **Cloudflare (NET), long** at 33:11: "I was long it in, like, February, March, like, around here and, like, I think around, like, the 180 area. I sold some, I think, in, like, the 250 area." Cloudflare is a likely agentic-web winner thanks to its bot defense and data, and AI tools default to it; a prior long was partly sold near 250. $295.26 when it was said, −1.2% since, against it, long term. [Call](https://fullportshow.com/calls/2026-10-20-08/)
- **Cloudflare (NET), long** at 37:32: "I’d probably look to buy this into numbers, a small position. Not a full position into numbers" Would buy a small position ahead of the Nov 5 earnings, though the chart looks scary. $295.26 when it was said, −1.2% since, against it, over weeks. [Call](https://fullportshow.com/calls/2026-10-20-09/)
- **Bitcoin (BTC), long** at 41:13: "Even a pullback to 65,000, we’re still like set up bullish… Bitcoin’s looking strong. It’s been stronger than gold." Bitcoin around $80K is bullish and relatively strong versus gold, even if it pulls back to 65-75K. $82,748 when it was said, −0.7% since, against it, over weeks. [Call](https://fullportshow.com/calls/2026-10-20-11/)
- **Hyperliquid (HYPE), long** at 51:58: "I will note on the Hyperliquid and lighter side, both of those still on my radar. I’m bullish on both of them as we see perps become the main narrative." Bullish on Hyperliquid as perps venues capture trading, including tokenized equity perps. $79.99 when it was said, +1.0% since, in its favor, over months. [Call](https://fullportshow.com/calls/2026-10-20-14/)
- **Lighter (LIT), long** at 51:58: "I will note on the Hyperliquid and lighter side, both of those still on my radar. I’m bullish on both of them as we see perps become the main narrative." Bullish on Lighter as perps become the main narrative in crypto trading. $3.21 when it was said, +1.5% since, in its favor, over months. [Call](https://fullportshow.com/calls/2026-10-20-15/)

## Also came up

- **Meta** at 28:36: "I think just as important, if not maybe more important, is Meta’s numbers"
- **Netflix (NFLX)** at 53:24: "We have Netflix as well tonight. So that should be on your radar as they report numbers."

## Chapters

- 0:00 Intro
- 0:30 The Black Monday That Wasn't
- 2:06 Korean Neocloud IPO Drops 30%: Be Patient on AI
- 4:33 Will the Government Backstop AI? Elon vs. Anthropic
- 7:01 Shout-Outs and the Full Port Call Tracker
- 8:34 Sophon Shuts Down: Is Consumer Crypto Here Yet?
- 13:03 IRL Experiences Win in an AI World: The Masters, Kith Ivy and Padel
- 22:05 Bots, Fake KPIs and Why Venture Scale Doesn't Fit IRL
- 27:08 SpaceX Reports Tonight: What to Watch
- 28:33 Meta Earnings and the Hyperscaler CapEx Test
- 31:00 Sites Blocking AI Agents
- 33:00 gmoney's Cloudflare Trade and SEO for LLMs
- 40:01 Bitcoin at $80K, Rate-Hike Odds and the Midterms
- 42:30 Leopold Levers Up Again: Is AI Positioning Ahead of Itself?
- 44:00 Patience and Discipline in Trading
- 47:39 Companies Push Back on Tokenized Stocks
- 51:35 Perps, Hyperliquid and Lighter
- 53:01 Netflix Tonight, Shout-Outs and Wrap

## Transcript

Automatic transcript with misheard names corrected. Times are from the start of the episode.

[0:00] What is up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Full Port. We've got oil at $110. Rates above 5% still. Iran threatening to cut the internet cable at the straight. We have SpaceX earnings tonight. Blockchain shutting down. There's a lot going on. As always, I'm joined with my partner in crime, the trading legend, the ape CryptoPunk. He's got a long resume. G-Money, how are you doing this morning? Good to see you. Happy Tuesday. What's up? Happy Tuesday. Hope the weekend was good. It was kind of funny. I think over the weekend, I guess some people were calling for Black Monday on Monday.

[0:45] And it wasn't really on my timeline, but then when it did show up, I was like, what? Why? To me, it didn't really make that much sense. And we opened up yesterday, I think sold off a little today. Stabilized. Seems like market may be bouncing a little bit. So, yeah, I don't know. I just feel like every weekend, X gets in its own echo chamber. Like, I think people were like, Black Monday. And then people are like, look, Hyperliquid, you know, AI stocks are selling off on Hyperliquid. And it's like, bro, like somebody sold like 300 shares. You know what I mean? Like down like 3%. We'll get into it later in the show. But if you look at the actual number of assets under management on chain right now, even that number is so small compared to what's happened. I think it's only a few billion dollars.

[1:35] And so we're playing in a very small sandbox that is, you know, compared to the real TradFi game that's going on. I think people don't realize that yet. Yeah. So I don't know. I like, you know, I think, you know, we should definitely get into it. But like, you know, obviously, over the last couple of weeks, we became much more, let's say, much more neutral on the AI trade in terms of like the price action not going along with the news. Right. And I think overnight we saw there was an IPO of a neocloud in Korea and that was down 30%. That, to me, is, again, like more bad news. You know what I mean?

[2:19] Like more the market pricing things in, selling off. It just, you know, again, stuff to look out for. I still don't think the AI, like I still think like AI is going to be integral parts. Like I use it more and more. Like I'm, I can't function without GrokBot at this point. And anytime I'm up on my usage limits on whatever platform it is, I'm just like, all right, I'm going to wait till my usage resets. And, you know, I think everything we see is that we're still so early. People still don't realize like how to use this stuff entirely. So I think there is a ton of edge in using it. Right. And I'll, I'll even use for us on the show where, you know, you've been basically building the website all on your own.

[3:09] I've been like running, clipping pretty much all on, all on our own. And these are all things that would have taken thousands of dollars worth of contracting work or hiring people to do this. Just like definitely like two, three years ago, I like, you know, I just, I, I'm astounded by, by the level of productivity you can have with this product. And I think we're still scratching the surface. So even though maybe the valuations got maybe ahead of themselves and like, listen, I think also like public equity investors are generally, you know, the always skeptical, right. Of, of the storytelling and, and rightfully so.

[3:52] And, you know, that's kind of like the way they've been making their money since, since forever. But I do think that there's something here that we should be paying attention to. And, you know, whether it's at these levels or maybe a little bit lower, like there's still going to be plenty of setups to be had. But like, I, you know, I think right now you can probably be a little patient on them just from like, I was looking over some of the charts before we came on the show is just like, you know, the charts look a little broken and probably need to base and, and work through some selling, you know, if they were to go higher from here.

[4:29] And, and I think like a lot of the questioning is whether we're at peak capex, I really don't think we are, I think it's going to continue, but I do think at some point, like, I've been thinking a lot about the government backstopping this trade, right, which is kind of what we talk about. And it's like, it's been a big topic and it really has gotten to a point where it's like a, a narrative online CT has taken over and everybody's talking about it at this point. Yeah. And so I do think, I don't think we're there at the point where the government will backstop it. I think what's going to end up happening right now is in the event that let's say open AI or Anthropic runs out of runway or needs capital.

[5:16] Like, I think there's enough people that will come in and finance it just that like, maybe not the valuations that they want, or even like, and again, I've been thinking more about what we were talking about last week with maybe Elon is trying to kind of close the door on Anthropic so that Anthropic doesn't have the capital that they need that Elon would step in. Right. Cause he's like, well, if I can get financing and you can't, then like, I'll take over those contracts. I'll take over that land. And, you know, it's not even like, oh, the government needs to step in and bail everybody out. It's like, no, there are other players, you know, Meta, Google, SpaceX, people that have access to this capital will step in and eat these guys alive. And like the free market will do what the free market does without the government.

[6:04] But, but understanding that implicitly there is that backstop underneath there at some point. And it's probably not at, you know, the S&P or the NASDAQ 2% off highs. It's probably like significantly lower, but you know, these are all things that I think as like an investor, you always need to be thinking about. Yeah. I think the number one thing that you started that whole segment off with is patience. Wouldn't get ahead of the skis on this one. Certainly there's some fear in the market and yeah, I'm happy to sit back and be patient here. I think we'll shop mostly into midterms and probably going to want to be on cash. I think there's gonna be some discounts across the board. Um, obviously I've been bullish on certain names over the last couple of weeks here, but, um, essentially I'm, I'm just being patient. I think that's probably the biggest piece of advice or biggest thing I've picked up on read the timeline. It's a good time to be patient. Um, do want to shout out real quick.

[7:06] Everybody who's viewing live on X YouTube, Twitch, wherever we are live, uh, chatters, let us know where you're checking in from. Um, I would also like to point out earlier in the show here. Um, you guys can follow along with everything we talk about here, our calls, get updates. Uh, if you go to fullportshow.com, um, we've made over 143 different calls over the course of the show. Um, and, uh, gee, I don't know if you know this, but if you had bought every single call in the direction that we have named, it would be outperforming basically any of the assets we've talked about, uh, on the show. I think we're like 23% above Bitcoin right now. Um, there's some logic in there that we moved around, but we are doing quite well. There is a good batting average. Um, I do owe an explanation at some point during the show for my Hyperliquid bull, uh, calls since a hundred dollars, essentially all the way down to 80.

[8:05] I still like the thesis, um, on Hyperliquid, but we'll get into perps in a bit here. Um, I do maybe want to revisit, uh, on the topic here. We have a lot going on. Um, I don't, I don't know if you want to jump in anything specifically to start the show off here though. Um, no, I, I'd say, I don't know. Like, should we go, let's go with, uh, let's talk about consumer crypto. Cause I think that's really interesting. Um, cause we were talking about that a little bit before the show. Uh, I'll, I'll, I'll pull it up here. Uh, this topic comes up with, uh, the main, uh, reasoning behind Sophon shutting down. They made an announcement previously. You can see the timeline here on the show. Um, but today giving everybody about a month to get assets off the chain. Um, they raised over $70 million.

[8:58] Dollars. They're, uh, currently 98% down, um, market cap about $9 million. Daily users under 200. Uh, gee, I feel like this is a conversation that we've already had previously, um, with other consumer focused chains. Do you think this is just, you know, consumer crypto isn't here yet? Um, okay. So I have a lot, a lot of thoughts on this, obviously, since I spent a lot of time in consumer crypto, um, you know, obviously abstract shut down or announced their shutdown. I think two weeks ago at this point, Sophon, uh, was very, a very similar product. I knew the team there. I know that they were focused on the consumer crypto segment and really branching outside of the space and trying to go to non web three users, obviously much harder than it sounds. This is definitely something I also spent a lot of time on, uh, with 90 CC. And, uh, I also want to give a shout out to digital spenders club.

[9:59] Uh, they sent me a care package and I'm actually wearing this FTX t-shirt from them, this free keys hat that they sent me. Uh, I will say the quality on this shirt is pretty incredible. It's very, I, I, I just hit them up right before the show and I was like, hey, do you have some blanks? Cause like, I kind of just want to wear, wear this like, and, and I have like a couple of designs that I wanted to make, uh, on like, because I like the fit and it's very comfortable. So big shout out to them. Uh, they actually, I had a call with them about a month ago, I think, and they, I think shut down the month that they opened, they started business the month that 90CC shut down, focus on the consumer crypto side.

[10:40] And I, I told them, and I, and I think this is like the hard part. And I think we see it also with FOMO too, and like pump and the, and all these people that want to like go outside of the space is that, um, like crypto culture is inherently like not cool. Right. Like we're all like techie. Right. And so, and, and, and, and so like, because of that, it's very hard to take what is core to the crypto culture and like make it cool. Right. Like for instance, like if somebody makes a lot of money on chain, they go and they buy Chrome Hearts or they go and spend it at their favorite designer brand or, or whatever.

[11:22] But like, that's because it sends a signal. Right. And people understand what that means outside of the space. If you go out there and buy a very crypto native thing, like let's say 90CC, for example, people would be like, Oh, that looks nice. But like, no, like, what is that? What is that? It didn't mean anything to like the greater, uh, in, in the greater social economy. Right. And so I always, I think that that's like inherently one of the harder things that crypto has to do because it's like inherently like it's a tech company. It's a tech industry. Right. So, um, generally like when you walk into a room, like the tech bros, aren't the guys driving culture.

[12:06] They're the guys that are driving the technology. Right. But they're not the guys that are like, Oh, this is like, you know, what every rap artist is going to wear. Right. For the next like couple of years. Right. And, and that, you know, that that's driven by a couple of tastemakers in, in the space. And so I think it's, I think one is crypto needs to kind of figure, figure that part out. I wasn't able to figure it out. I think it's like a very difficult problem to figure out. Um, and you have to spend a lot of money, I think in order to, to kind of get there. Uh, but then two is like, and I think we're starting to get there.

[12:43] Now is the tech just wasn't, it just wasn't easy enough. It wasn't seamless enough even a couple of years ago. But I think now like we could be getting there now with like, everybody can plug into privy. You can do the sign sign in with email and, and have all these crypto things. So, you know, I, I think it's exciting. I think usually when, um, you know, it's like signs of a bottom are when like all these ideas maybe close and wrap up and, and, you know, kind of cry uncle. And maybe that's like the beginning of the next run. But like, I do think that I think one of the issues, and we were kind of talking about this, right. But literally right before we went on air is in a world of AI.

[13:31] And where anything can be made online very easily, there's going to be a huge premium to IRL events and IRL experiences. And, uh, you know, kind of, we were talking about a couple of months ago with like the experience of the masters, right? The masters does, man, I forgot the number, but I think it was like, was it $300,000 a minute or $3 million? It's something, it's something ridiculous, how much money they make per minute. And you, and you can only buy the product there. Right. And so you can't buy it online. You can only buy it by going to the actual, by having a ticket to go to the actual masters.

[14:08] And so like, right before we went on air, I was telling you how, like, I've been getting into paddle. Like I, I, I play paddle, I think at least like four or five times a week. I play all the time. And I was listening to this, uh, this interview that Ronnie Feig did, who's the founder of Kith. And he was talking about how, you know, he got into paddle a couple of years ago and then he built the Kith Ivy, which is basically like a, um, members club in New York city that has three paddle courts. I played there a couple of times. I have a couple of friends who are members. It's incredible. It's a great experience. And you can only go into the shop, you know, most of the stuff they sell online, but there are a couple of things that you can only buy at the shop in person.

[14:46] And you can only go into the shop if you're playing there and invited by a member. Like you can't like be like, Oh, I'm, I'm walking by the Kith. Like, let me just go Kith Ivy. Let me just go and buy something. So I was like, Oh, like I kind of, I liked what he said. And like, because I've been playing a ton of paddle, like I've been going through like a lot of clothes and stuff. And like, I've been like trying to find stuff that I like online. And I'm like, yeah, there's like some good stuff. Like I have like a ton of Kith stuff because I feel like they make probably some of the better looking stuff with, uh, with good quality. Whereas other things that I've played in, I'm like, ah, the quality might not, might not be the best or not the style that I want.

[15:26] And I was telling you right before, right before the show started is like, I'm like toying with the idea of like, do I just make some things that I want to wear for myself and then just give them out to people as I like, if we were playing and you're like, Oh, I like that shirt. I'm like, all right, cool. Like I'll give you one. Right. Or I'll sell you one or whatever it is. Right. But like, just make it like very intimate and like, not like. But that's, that's the future. Like, I think, I think there's a couple of different narratives online, uh, that are like, one was like in the world of AI, ADHD becomes more valuable, uh, in the world of AI, friction, intimacy, uh, emotional feeling becomes more valuable in business.

[16:07] Um, the, the other one, the other one was a chart showing, uh, having like, like obsessive, uh, like nature, like a focus actually goes down because a lot of that discipline no longer matters, um, in like being super hyper-focused on a certain thing. Um, I, I think that it's just a trend of like, you have to understand, like, this is going to affect not only business, but like consumer behavior. That, that's the biggest probably thing you've got to understand here. Agentic shopping is a whole nother, um, I, I mean, I find, I find, and like, I'd love to know, like how, what your experience has been is I've been more intrigued by like limited edition.

[16:53] I can only buy this in person, or it's only available for a limited amount of time, like not online to everybody. And like, maybe like, you have to know the, like, I, to me, like those things are so much more valuable, right. Where even now, because dude, I, I hate golf. I don't, I don't like playing golf. I don't like watching golf. But now when I see somebody with like masters gear on, I'm like, Oh, like, did you go? Right. Or, you know, it's just like, Oh yeah. Like it's just like a conversation piece. Right. And so, um, I, I, I, I just think it's going to happen more and more. I think there's this, um, I don't know exactly what it is, but it seems like it's a pop-up sushi club that I think is a collaboration with, uh, the founder of Nobu, uh, and maybe like Daniel Arsham and, and maybe I think, uh, a restaurateur.

[17:42] I don't remember, I don't know exactly all the details of it, but you can't buy merch online. You can only get it when they buy, you know, when they have a pop-up there and maybe you can only get it if you eat there. Or I don't really know exactly, but I, I've seen like some people in, in real life, like wearing the hat or the t-shirt and I'm like, Oh, cool. Like, you know, like you're, you're part of like the club or, or whatever. So I just think we're going to start seeing more and more of this. And this kind of plays into the joke that like, I've, I've always had, um, with people where I ask them like in the, in, in the world where we don't need to work.

[18:17] Right. Like what, what would you do with your time? And like, I joke that like, I'd be a coffee barista and I'm like, basically like, I would have like a pop-up that like, maybe like, I just have, like, I'm the barista, but like, I only see like, I don't know, five people a day. And it's like people that come in and we just have a conversation. I make you coffee and we hang out for like two hours and that's it. Right. And it's like, it's like, not like you're doing it for. It makes, it makes so much sense though. If you like, if you end game this out, like, it makes so much sense to me. Like, and I, I actually would have pushed back on this before, but.

[18:54] Push back on what? This idea of like, oh, like, you know, if, if AI actually keeps going direction, it's going to, are people just going to be like, I'm going to go be a barista. And like, money doesn't matter. I'm just going to do what I love. Like, I do think that I, regardless, I think that's a way you should live your life no matter what. But I do think it's going to force a lot of people to just be like, all right, I want to, I can do whatever. Like, it doesn't, it doesn't matter. I have, you know, basic income and I've always wanted to be, you know, a pianist here. I'm going to go obsess over being a piano player and I'm going to only play for like an intimate group of people once a week and people will pay to come see it because they want a specific type of entertainment.

[19:41] I think this is good for the comedy sector, like the, like all these like little niches that I think of like. Unless you get canceled, unless you get canceled for a joke on SNL, you know? No, but I, I agree with you. I think like all these types of things, it's like, um, I did improv when I first moved to the new. To New York in my 20s. And I loved it. I did it for two years. Upright Citizens Brigade. They had these classes. RIP. I think they're only in LA now. But it was so much fun. It was incredible. You got to meet with people. You got to connect. Because I do think in this world, right, you want like, it's like a barbell, right? And I see it in my life. On one end, I have hyper productivity where I use AI as much as possible.

[20:26] And I don't want to interact with humans on one end and do everything and be able to figure everything out on my own and have a bot working all the time and agents working. And then on the other end, I want human connection, right? And it's like, ultimately, like my barista idea, it's more about hanging out with people for whatever, not all day, right? It's like, I said, I do it for like two or three hours a day, you know, open up shop from nine, be done at noon, hang out with people. It's like, you make a reservation, we hang out. It's like almost like a dinner club type thing, but like for breakfast.

[21:01] And then it's like, all right, well, what else do I like, right? Like playing paddle? Why do I like it? It's the community aspect around the game is great. It's a lot of fun. But then also, the people that I meet are very interesting. You have like, good times. And it's like, competitive, but like, not too competitive. Right. But also, it's like, yeah, because I met a couple of people that like, are like, Oh, yeah, like, I'm playing soccer and like, in their 30s and 40s. And like, I just can't do it anymore. It's so taxing on my body. And I'm like, yeah, well, paddles, like, it's a great workout. But it's not like, you know, it's like one of those sports, like tennis is one of those sports, you can play well into like your 50s, 60s, 70s. And, you know, like with life extension stuff coming, hopefully, like, 80s and 90s. Right. And so I just think like, people are going to want at one end productivity on the other end community. And I think that's where like these really interesting opportunities is, but I think the issue is that they're not like scalable.

[21:58] And I think this is where consumer crypto ran into its problems. And this is where I ran into my problem with 90CC, where I'd be like, hey, we had like, 3000 people show up to this event. Right. And then VCs and investors would be like, all right, well, like, you know, this protocol did like, you know, has like 100,000 active wallets. And I'm like, yeah, but like, they're all bots. You know, like, I had real people that went out of their way, stood online. It is incredible how this is still not like baked in it, like everybody's head that a lot of the KPIs, a lot of the things that are being shown out there are completely botted. It's not real. It's not real consumers. And, and, you know, a topic that we'll get into here is like, I look through the top, I wanted to see like who the top million dollar plus wallets were that were trading exclusively on Pump.fun or the profit was from Pump.fun.

[22:53] Realize P&L, all of them, snipers, all of them, or algorithmic, none of them organic in any way. And this is like, it's just because we've become so easily into the world of like, everything's an API, everything could be done automatically, there's a system, people will buy their like, it's just part of the game at this point, you've got to understand that if you're seeing a huge number, you should be skeptical of it, instead of just accepting as like, oh my god, they have mass adoption. Well, even I mean, that's, I mean, that was like the issue that Kalshi got into a couple weeks ago, right? I think FOMO posted something about their DAUs or something, and people were starting to call them out on those numbers. And, you know, he corrected them and stuff like that. But like, at the end of the day, you know, it's like, but, but that's like the nature of running a venture scale business, right?

[23:46] Like, if you're running a venture backed business, you need those venture scale outcomes. And so like, it's like, there's two, there's two ways of it, right? And it's like, I think of, you know, you think of your kids, you think of like major food group, which is the owners of Carbone. I listened to one of their co-founders on a podcast a couple weeks ago. And I thought was really interesting. There's like the focus on not, not scaling, right? And it's like, I think when you don't have an investor group or venture investors, venture investors are like, if this is 1000x or zero, and that's the bet that they're making, right?

[24:24] So you have to either get to 1000x, or they're just going to be like, yeah, man, like you tried, thank you, on to the next one. Or there's those other people that are like, okay, this is like a slow and steady type of business. And I think IRL businesses are slow and steady types of businesses, right? Where it's like, even like you're on running, these running brands that are blowing up seemingly overnight, over the last couple years, you know, some of them are like 10, 15 years old, right? And it came out doing the non-scalable things that came to really hitting a chord with a certain small niche demographic. And then it expands out of that because it comes cool to, you know, the 1% within a certain vertical. I mean, that's like run clubs, right? Yeah, like run clubs are not scalable. Like you can only have whatever, 20 people show up 30 people show up, and then slowly they build over time. But like, I just think like, if you have a venture backed business, you don't have that timeframe, right? And so like, I think you need to understand, if you're raising money for this type of stuff, you need to understand like level set expectations and find those right types of investors. Because a venture investor is like, yeah, well, like you're not growing fast enough. So like, we're not going to keep on, like investing in this, right? And so it's like, but, but that doesn't mean it's not investable, right? Because there are investable businesses that is like, okay, cool. Like, you know, this is slower, slower growth.

[25:51] But like, you know, a little more certain or whatever. But like, you know, you just have to find the right investor group or not raise money, right? And I think that's where we'll probably, I think that's what like AI is kind of allowing, right? Is like the ability to run as like a smaller team. So like even me, like wanting to make clothes, like, I don't know, I'm going to like mess around with AI and just see like, all right, maybe like I can do this on my own and like cut out a lot of the expense. Because I know, I know where the expenses are. I lived it, right? The human capital costs can be replaced in so many areas. Like you don't need, you don't need a web designer most of the time if you're starting, like to get to MVP stuff.

[26:30] Obviously, you want like something that is going to land above and beyond, like there are limitations AI. But a lot of the human capital costs for starting a business right now has trended to $20 a month or $200 a month, depending on your usage. There are a lot of labs that if they were to listen into the show right now, they would be like, yes, give us, give us the 15 years, don't hold us to quarter to quarter earnings. But again, that is the downside of taking venture capital, as well as, you know, setting incredibly ambitious growth metrics. One that we have to touch on, SpaceX, probably the most important one that's being held to its numbers here.

[27:15] I can pull up the numbers for that. We have earnings coming tonight. SpaceX currently trading, I believe it was around $150 last I looked. Yeah, $147 close. I'm not sure what your take here is. I kind of wanted to miss. I want things to be terrible because I'd love to buy more at a lower number. I'm not sure. Are you touching this at all? Any takes on the SpaceX report that's going out tonight? I have to read some recaps or some expectations going into numbers tonight.

[28:01] But, yeah, I mean, I think that, like, I've been building my portfolio with my Quotrons dividends. So I've been, like, I think I have a small position relative to my overall portfolio. But I've been, like, you know, like, I think a couple weeks ago, especially, like, I think in this area is when I started getting bullish. Now, admittedly, this was right after, I think, a couple days before you were like, it's a buy here. I'm like, ah, I'll wait until, like, 85. I don't know necessarily, like, going into this call. I don't necessarily have an idea to take a position. I think just as important, if not maybe more important, is Meta's numbers, which is in, I think it's tomorrow night or Thursday.

[28:43] And so, you know, we're getting into the thick of earnings season this week is we have these guys as kind of like the tech bellwethers. And then next week will be your Apples, Amazons, and Googles. And so I think getting information from the hyperscalers of, one, what their ROI is, and then, two, what their CapEx plans probably will determine the next move in the neoclouds and the chip makers and all this stuff, right? So I think that that's what people want to see. I think probably even, you know, I think SpaceX is going to be important. I personally am interested in what GrokBot usage is like.

[29:23] I know Elon has been tweeting and people have been tweeting about how it's, like, the fastest adopting product that X has, like, put out or SpaceX has put out. And I think Meta will have, like, some similar notes and, like, what their thoughts are. But, yeah, I mean, I think to me that that's kind of, like, what you're seeing is going to be very interesting. People are going to want to see what's that ROI. And I think that that's kind of where we're at in, like, the CapEx cycle because that will determine, you know, if, you know, Anthropic can spend the $500 billion in capital commitments that they have over the next, like, three years, right?

[30:00] Okay. Okay. Thank you. Oh, again, I think everything's a little bit of signal into the rest of the market here. I think the GROC usage probably, I have to agree there, that's probably the number one thing that they will say that'll not have any effect on the rest of the market. I don't think Starlink stuff's going to have any real effect. I don't think any of their other revenue or usage, it will come down to, okay, well, let's talk AI. Let's talk adoption, let's talk spend usage across the board. That will likely influence the rest of the market, in my opinion here. Meta, I think, is going to be probably more interesting from a discussion standpoint of how Muse is being used.

[30:49] I think it's clear they have the distribution, and there certainly is a level of adoption that they've kind of bolstered online. I think how it's being used is going to be more impactful. I'm very curious about their shopping side, the e-com side. I think there's a lot of, I think that is one of the more interesting frontiers. I've talked about it, how we've had certain e-commerce companies and certain shopping sites push back against LLMs and agents using, which, again, I understand that you want to be defensive against your site getting scraped or, you know, whatever these drop shippers or these curly-haired, you know, Miami kids are trying to do to make a buck in the world of AI.

[31:38] I mean, they're all selling data right now, so, like, none of them are really being dropshipping. But, no, I think what you bring up, not to cut you off for a second there, but I think what you bring up is really interesting because, like, so I have GrokBot set up, and I have it set up on my Mac Mini. So sometimes a lot of, like, these sites will block these server IPs, right? So if, like, a lot of these agents are hosted in servers, so in the cloud, so then if the IP that it's pinging, like, Amazon is coming from that IP, they'll block it, right? Because you're like, oh, yeah, this is, like, server traffic or whatever.

[32:21] But the cool thing, and I remember this was one of, like, the real big pros of OpenClaw was that when you set up your Mac Mini at home, that's your residential IP. So it makes it harder for, like, Amazon and these people to block that traffic because that could be me, right? So it's, like, you know, it's not server traffic, which would be a bot, but it's home traffic, which means, oh, this is probably, like, a human that's doing it. I haven't really utilized it, like, on Amazon yet or whatever, but sometimes when I'm on GrokBot, I'm like, hey, like, go do this. And it's like, oh, it's blocking agents or whatever.

[33:01] I'll be like, all right, like, do it, like, do it from the Mac Mini. Locally from Chrome and use screenshots or the console around it. And it gets around there, right? I think the interesting thing, I was long this earlier in the year. We haven't spoken about it on the show, I think, ever. But I was long it in, like, February, March, like, around here and, like, I think around, like, the 180 area. I sold some, I think, in, like, the 250 area. Because I just thought, like, we're talking about Cloudflare. And the reason why I think Cloudflare is really interesting is, one, I know that they're building, they're working on, like, a crypto dollar.

[33:40] So, like, I think that's one that's interesting. But two is, like, Cloudflare, I don't even know exactly what Cloudflare does. But I know that every website and every web dev that I've ever worked with is, like, oh, we need to have the Cloudflare, like, up. And it's basically, like, from my understanding is that it helps you against, like, people attacking your website, right, with bots and, like, kind of, like, overloading your servers. And it acts as, like, a defense against that. And so I think because of that, they're going to probably be a big winner in the agentic world. Because, one, they have all the data, right?

[34:19] Like, they have all of the information of, like, what does a bad attack look like and all this stuff. And now they can sit there and they can probably find a way to package that stuff. And I know, dude, like, I have Cloudflare set up on pretty much all of my VPSs, on all my websites and all of this. I still couldn't tell you what it does, but I do know that, one, every developer that I ever worked with and every AI LLM is, like, we need to set up our Cloudflare. This reminds me of the CNBC guy who was, like, I'm very long on this. And they're, like, what does the company do? And he's, like, I can't hear you.

[34:54] You're breaking up. I can't hear you. I, oh, what? Cloudflare, yes. I think what they're also doing, that should be noted, and I can shed some light on what they actually do, but they have, like, leaned into, if you want to, like, build a website, if you want to build an app, if you want, if you have a domain, you have a script you want to run on a scheduler, if you have models that you want to, like, reference, you can quite literally open up Claude and be like, hey, here's what I want to do, like, go build it. And it defaults to doing it on Cloudflare. And I think that in itself should be a, like, you could go back to the early 2000s and be like, whoever had the best SEO, you knew in the world of e-com was going to dominate because they were going to show up when you search running shoes.

[35:49] Nike was going to land higher, that higher domain authority, page authority. In the world of AI, it's, you know, I don't know what the actual term is, like LM, SEO, or I don't know what the technical term is, but, like, I've seen this, I've seen this on LinkedIn a few times, I've seen this, and everything that I'm doing across the board, it's why full port, it's why Indeix, Lute, my personal, everything leans into, hey, this is, this site is welcome for agents, come scrape it, come use it. There's an API, like, I'm building APIs into sites that I would never, why would you have an API for a show like this?

[36:29] I want agents to come in, I want agents to be like, hey, like, you're researching Bitcoin, I have a great site with all this information, and should go, like, pull information from it and go listen to their podcast. I want that. I do got to lean into it, Cloudflare has leaned into it, and they're also the info provider in that industry. So, yeah, like, it's taking a dip here, but I'm also pretty bullish on it long-term, being something that's going to be continued to be used, be used by everybody. Does it see that price upside from there? I don't know. That's part of this, like, is the AI trade over?

[37:04] Are we going to bounce? Are we not going to bounce? Chart looks a little scary. I can't lie. I don't know. I'm looking up when they report. They might have just reported, but, like, I kind of, I don't know. It looks like earnings are in a couple, two weeks, three weeks here? You got a purple earnings at the bottom of your chart there in November. November 5th, yeah. Yeah, it's November 5th. Yeah, I don't know. I think this is kind of interesting. I'd probably look to buy this into numbers, a small position. Not a full position into numbers, but, yeah. And also, like, listen, with a chart that looks like this, I'm not necessarily running out to buy it hand over fist.

[37:46] You can probably, you know, try to buy a little bit. But I just think, like, for the reasons that we were just saying, like, even with what you said, right, is, like, when you tell your, like, the way I, like, led with it, right, is, like, all my LLMs love it. You know what I mean? And, like, they're, like, oh, yeah, like, we need to set up Cloudflare. And I'm, like, okay, you know, like, if you say so. And so, you know, like, even on, like, I just set up a weekly security audit for all my VPSs and all my websites and all the stuff to make sure, like, I'm not, like, exposing certain things and stuff like that.

[38:20] And, like, again, like, Cloudflare is, like, part of that, you know? Yeah. So it's, like. Yeah. Cloudflare, GitHub. Cloudflare and GitHub have been. And the ultimate winner. And GitHub's owned by, I believe, Microsoft at this point. I think in the world of, like, when I open up an agent, I'm, like, hey, go build this or I want to do this. And I see where it's defaulting to. That is likely where, you know. And obviously there's some moat for each of those. I'm, like, I got to be bullish here. And you got to put money where you see usage flowing to. And, yeah, I don't know, besides Cloudflare, who's going to be a large competitor for them off the top of my head.

[39:06] And they just have such a unique product that kind of fits into everything right now. But on the topic, like, there are so many people that I've seen that have been saying, like, oh, Muse is sending people to my site. And I'm getting, like, inbound from Muse. And they're, like, I got 100% uptick in revenue this week. Why? Because all of a sudden I started getting referenced when people were searching, you know, asking about certain things. I started getting referenced. And people are trying to reverse engineer this over time. Gee, I don't know if you've looked. I'm just looking at on the Fullport website, actually.

[39:46] For those who also don't know, we've added two tools to the site. You have a markets tab. If you want to go there, you can see the big four, which is BTC, Ethereum, Solana, Hype, what's up the most. Um, it does look like the market's turned relatively green into a little bit of a red morning here. Um, I'm liking, I'm liking this, like, it seems like we've got some momentum going into, uh, the early morning here. Um, yeah, well, here, I, I was just sharing the tab, uh, that on the site that you were talking about, which I think is very interesting. Uh, and then let's go to the charts, but yeah, I was taking a look, um, just now of like, uh, this is the, look at this beautiful art that, that I made from last week.

[40:38] Look at this drawing of Bitcoin. Um, but yeah, I mean, it looks like, dude, it looks like, it's so funny because again, over the weekend, I think if you, reading the timeline, people are like, oh my God, it's over. And I'm like, oh wow, we have to be at like 70,000. And it's like, no, we're at 80,000. And I'm like, oh, I'm like, okay. I'm like, you know, even like when we were talking about last week, right. Even a pullback to like 75,000, even a pullback to 65,000, we're still like set up bullish. You know what I mean? And like, there's, I don't know. I just think that like, again, this, this thing, Bitcoin's looking strong.

[41:18] It's been stronger than gold. Gold looks like maybe it's not making new lows anymore. So again, I think this is one of those things of like, all right. Um, I think the market's at a 20% chance for a rate hike, uh, I think next week. Right. And then, uh, but bank of America came out overnight saying that it's like there, they think a rate hike definitely happens next week. And so once the market starts pricing that in, then the question starts becoming, all right, if, again, I, I think we've got the midterms coming up in about two weeks, two and a half weeks, I think two weeks. Exactly. Um, if there's some sort of ceasefire in Iran, which it doesn't look like it's, it's letting up, uh, at the moment, just judging by like oil and like the headlines and stuff like that.

[42:05] But like, if there is that we, you know, oil starts coming in, inflation starts coming down, then all of a sudden we're not looking at rate hikes anymore. And maybe like, you know, flat or easing or, or whatever. So I don't know. I just like, again, I think right now everyone is really looking at stuff that's going on in the AI sector. Like is AI over? I don't think the trade is over. Um, I think maybe you just got to have to be a little bit patient, shore up some cash so that you can buy the blood, you know? And like, dude, like, I think the interesting thing here is like, even like going into last week, towards the end of the week, dude, Leopold like levered up again.

[42:45] Like he managed to do it like a second time and, you know, I think he was in the money for a little bit and it's like, you know, you know, like that, the, the meme of like, you know, liquidate him again. Right. Like if like, uh, from the Truman shows, like now do this, now do this. And it was like, Ken Griffin being like, all right, now liquidate him again. Yeah. And so I don't know. It's just kind of like, uh, again, he, he has a ton of conviction. There was also, uh, some news last week of like another AI fund that was positioned very similarly to situational awareness that was blowing up. And so, you know, it just could be like a positioning thing where it's like, Hey, if you're not trading on margin or utilizing leverage, um, there'll, there'll be spots where you can like, you know, load up on, on certain things.

[43:33] So, uh, yeah, I mean, again, I'm still, I utilize this stuff every day. I'm still so bullish on it, but the question starts to become is like, is positioning ahead of itself? You know, is it, you know, I, I won't say it's like the cycle top, but it could be like mini cycles within the longer term, the longer term trend, you know? So like there will be, there will be ebbs and flows, uh, through, throughout all of it. So I, I think it just comes back to patience. Like, I don't know why, uh, it's like such an unk, such boomer thing to like say. And I, I'm sure the timeline's like, all right, sick.

[44:12] Like I can only be so patient, but like, it does come back to being a disciplined trader. I know OSF and Mando were putting out a bunch of content over the last week, talking about how, when you're doing $10 billion worth of volume over the course of a year, how they stay profitable. Um, and it, it comes down to having discipline and patience and not over trading when you shouldn't be. Um, and I've talked to this with a lot of other traders. Like if you are actually sitting down and saying, I will always set a stop loss at this percent. I will always size this way. If I hit a big win, I will not do X, Y, and Z.

[44:49] Like if you, if you stand by your actual like operating procedure, you will take a lot of, uh, the losses off of the table. And that's why we see a lot of people lose money. They're just not disciplined into like what you actually need to do. This is not a game. It, it, it's a skill. It's a profession. Um, you gotta be good at what you're doing. And if it was easy, we'd have a lot of millionaires walking around, uh, while everybody would be rich. So probably understand. Yeah. I think again, we've had this combo a ton, right. Where it's like, I think people think because trading is relatively easy in the sense that all you have to do is press buttons in front of a computer.

[45:27] People think that it's easy and it's not, it is very difficult. And I think the number one thing between people that have a long career and people that have a short one in trading is discipline and whatever your rules are, because the rules are different for everybody. So my rules will be different than your rules, but like every trading style is different, right? Even, even if they are similar, there'll be like little differences because of our personalities and our risk tolerance and all of these things. But the one thing that you see consistently over and over again is people's ability to cut losers and to be disciplined of whatever the rules are, right?

[46:03] Whatever your rules are, you have to stick to them and then get out and reevaluate, right? Like I, to me, that's one of the things I always loved about trading liquid assets is that because the, like, if you buy real estate and then you immediately are like, oh, I changed my mind. I don't think this is a really good idea. Like you're about to lose 20%. Like, you know what I mean? Like between listing it, if you really want to get out very fast, you have to, you know, the cost of the transaction, getting a real estate broker, all these things. Like it's very expensive to buy and sell stuff very quickly in real estate.

[46:41] In equities, like it literally costs you like maybe what, 10 bips and like 10 bips. You know what I mean? Like depending on your size. So it's like you can literally get out there and then you're like, oh, oh, I misunderstood this. Oh, this was actually really good. All right, cool. I'll buy back in. And so I think that's one of those things is like you just have to be disciplined and reevaluate new news as it comes out. And then once that news comes out, the beautiful thing about liquid markets is that it's very cheap to get to go in and out. Again, I just keep coming back to on-chain eats everything, right?

[47:17] Like if we do see a lot of these RWAs moving on-chain, there's nothing stopping real estate to moving on-chain in the next decade. I would not say it's definitely not the next 12 months thing, but, you know, I think a lot you'll start to see things being traded in higher frequencies of more volume, more participants that we never saw before because of the ease of access. And, you know, tokenized stocks, it's coming whether you like it or not. I'm not sure what your take here is. We did have over the last week a lot of pushback in the tokenized world. I'm not sure if you're aware, tokenized stocks were pushed back when CoreWeave Broadcom said no and rejected the OKEx by the ICE's share token.

[48:05] Apple Oven, Verizon, UnitedHealth, and a few others joined in on this. And what we've seen is over the last year, since the beginning, we had Citadel object to this. The SEC delayed it. EU, unsurprisingly, the absolute idiots that they are, said that it was a risk and flagged it. But we did see the SEC come out and say, hey, like, we want to push forward with this. And we're now seeing the CFTC also kind of rally behind this. But tokenized stocks are coming. And there's certainly pushback at this point. The winners currently, I know Robinhood's been big in the headlines here, xStocks, Ondo, and Binance.

[48:53] Binance obviously likes to throw its weight behind things. I think we should realize, though, that the numbers here are a little bit lower than most people probably want to realize. Only $3.4 billion of assets on chain, which is minuscule to what the actual market cap of a number of assets out there in TradFi are. But there is a steady flow of assets coming on chain. Do you think this pushback is going to hurt tokenized stocks coming on chain, or is it just inevitable at this point? That's my take. I mean, listen, I think BlackRock is pro-tokenized stocks, and that's all you need to know. You know, like, at the end of the day, who cares what these single-name operators want to do because they're not in charge of where these exchanges go, where these asset managers want to go.

[49:44] And, you know, if BlackRock is like, this is what we're going to do, then, like, this is what we're going to do. If anything, those numbers being small make me even more bullish because that just means, like, the upside is still so magnificent, right? And it's like, yeah, you know, slowly than all at once, right? And, again, this goes back to why. You know, I think this cycle is like the true, like tokenized equity cycle and the beginnings of it. And we see what's at stake, right? We like you can just look at the stablecoin market and see how slowly then suddenly, right? Like, you know, for the longest time, you know, now like you can send money internationally much easier via crypto because more people can also accept it, right?

[50:27] Whereas even like five, six years ago, if I wanted to send somebody not in crypto a hundred bucks, it'd be like, all right, like, do you have Venmo? Do you have Revolut, you know, PayPal, like whatever it is. And now it's like, all right, even if you do have those things, they do take crypto. So I can just like, just tell me what your wallet address is. I can send it to you from crypto and it's instantaneous as opposed to, you know, some of those other solutions. So I think we're going to see the same thing with tokenized equities, you know, and it's, again, it's slowly then suddenly, right? I think stuff like finding ways for extra yield, right? Even like the meme coin stuff, right? It's driving more demand for these, these stocks on chain.

[51:09] And once there's like an extra yield component where you're like, oh, I can be long NVIDIA. I can be long Apple and earn an extra, whatever, 1% a year. Like in crypto, we're like, oh my God, that's not 1% a year, 1% a month, right? In crypto, we're like, oh, 10, 12%, who cares? But like your normal investors, mom and pop investors are like, oh, I can earn an extra 12% on top of like, let's say like my 10 to 12% average. Like, of course I want to do this. Yeah, I think again, on chain is going to eat everything. I'm so fired up for this. Perps, I think we'll, in the short term here, be the short term winner. I know at market open from 930 to 10, we saw the market for crypto pop off quite considerably.

[51:58] Or we saw, I think Bitcoin and ETH, SOL, HYPE all shoot towards 24 hour highs. And now they're all taking back those gains. But I will note on the Hyperliquid and lighter side, both of those still on my radar. I'm bullish on both of them as we see perps become the main narrative. We had FOMO ad, Hyperliquid, Pump.fun ad, Hyperliquid. And I still think perps right now are kind of the core area where trading is happening. A lot of people have moved away from meme coins. And as we see a lot of these names come on chain that are equities, I think a lot of people are just moving towards the perps venues that trade them.

[52:48] They want, they want, they want to add leverage and get outsized returns on their capital. Yeah. Yeah, no, I listen, I think, again, I think people were in a traders market, people are hyper rotating. I think when on chain comes back, it'll come back roaring and you'll see that rotation. And yeah, I listen, I think ultimately everything's being driven by macro at the moment. And, you know, as macro goes, so will the rest, so the rest of the, not only the space, but also like AI and, you know, everything is kind of correlated a little bit at this moment. Well, we've got some big stuff on the horizon here. Obviously, SpaceX tonight. We have Netflix as well tonight. So that should be on your radar as they report numbers.

[53:36] And we have obviously, I believe, some Fed numbers at some point in the next week. I have to look. I'm not sure off the top of my head. I will give a shout out to our viewers in chat. Quadwitch, Clix, as always. Clix is putting out clips, engaging on Instagram. We see it. We love it. If you aren't already, make sure that you are subscribed to the newsletter on fullportshow.com. You'll get a rundown of everything we talked on the show before and after the show runs on Tuesdays and Thursdays. And if you ever want us to discuss anything, feel free to DM either of us or shoot us an email at hello at fullportshow.com.

[54:18] G, any closing thoughts before we wrap it up here? No. Shout out to Digital Spenders Club for the gear. You got to hook up Hunter as well. Anybody else that wants to outfit us, always down to have that combo. So I'm looking forward to see you guys on Thursday. Well, guys, thank you everybody for tuning in to another episode. We'll catch you on the next one. Until then, I'm Hunter. That's G Money. This is Fullport Show. Size accordingly. We'll catch you on the next one. Cheers, guys.

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